PS3/Vita General Topic

I gave up watching, the audio started to dissapear as well, i'll just have to watch it when its repeated. I won't buy neither this or the 720 at their respective launches but will definitely pick one of them up when the price drops!

So Sony never actually showed what the PS4 looks like...(or did I miss it - I didn't see the first 5 minutes or so)

( Edited 21.02.2013 01:07 by Sonic_13 )

Sonic_13 said:
So Playstation never actually showed what the PS4 looks like...(or did I miss it?)

No they didn't, we have to wait until E3.

Super impressed. Wii U and what it offers looks dire in comparison.

I'm pretty excited for that new infamous game
Good conference!

Looks like I'll be rolling with Wii U/PS4 this gen.

Controller looks good but tbh I kind of expected the graphics to look better.

L said:
Controller looks good but tbh I kind of expected the graphics to look better.

What Q were you streaming at, even at 480p some of those games looked way beyond what we've seen from Nintendo so far. 

Let's wrap up some impressions if I can..

First of all, I'm not too surprised about visuals, it's around what I was expecting. It's impressive.. but I wasn't even blown away by the tech-demos anymore. Say what you want about dynamic lighting and such, but to me I've seen games with more "wow" on the PS3 and 360 - graphics are peaking I think, and even Sony knows that graphics can't wow people into buying a system anymore. Which brings me onto my next points..

WOW, the console is packed to the brim with gamer-friendly features, the PS4 sounds like a console that is really catered towards making games and gamers as comfortable as possible. Helping your friend's game, instantly streaming and playing games while they download, sharing, as well as the wealth of support on the system.. not to mention the ugly controller actually looks comfier than past DualShocks; and I'm totally good with that.

Only a few of the games interested me, and it's almost certain that, like previous console showings, the amount of times they say "real time" won't make them actually real time. Look at the PS3's tech-demos (though the gap is getting closer since PS1 tech-demos)

I'm definitely interested in getting a PS4, I was very happy for Sony during that show because it sounds like they've crafted a fascinating, seamless machine that will be all about games. Unless Microsoft surprise me with some amazing, new features no one's considered yet, or some surprise exclusives that really capture me, I can't see a reason to own a Microsoft system this gen. I think I'm pretty set on PS4 already.

Of course.. I wonder what the console looks like, and the price point.. the price point will really decide how successful the thing will be. It sounds insanely expensive with all this amazing tech, but if it's cheap, it'll sell truckloads from day-1.
If it's over £300, I doubt I'll buy one on launch unless it gets some really amazing games. I'm also really worried about the possibility of it being only digital releases? I love physical games, and I don't want games to be locked to one user account. That would lose the system a sale from me.. but I doubt it'd be that bad

Overall, it looks lovely. Thankya Sony; NOW PLEASE MAKE MORE VITA GAMES.

( Edited 21.02.2013 01:31 by SuperLink )

Linkyshinks said:

L said:
Controller looks good but tbh I kind of expected the graphics to look better.

What Q were you streaming at, even at 480p some of those games looked way beyond what we've seen from Nintendo so far. 

I actually agree with L. I was expecting more graphically from most of the games. Maybe in person they will seem more impressive, but we're probably just reaching a point where there aren't giant leaps in graphical capabilities anymore.

EDIT: Oops. L

( Edited 21.02.2013 03:10 by Sonic_13 )

^ You mean L right.

But yes, the visuals are better than what we've seen on WiiU from a technical standpoint.. but there are visually amazing games on PS3 and 360 at this point that the PS4 doesn't seem leaps and bounds ahead of in many aspects when it comes to looking at it objectively without technological knowledge.

Even if you know the visuals are on a different level, they may not look or feel it to the average consumer. Visuals are peaking, they won't wow people or be the focal point of new systems anymore; because nothing in that conference shocked me or made me wow.. it's just like slightly prettier versions of beautiful games I've already seen on the PS3.

Don't get me wrong, the graphics and power are great, but they're not going to shift consoles like they used to. No one I know was really wowed by the graphics like anyone was coming into 6th or 7th gen.

The social features impressed me far more than the visuals of all games/tech demos that were shown. Not the Facebook/smartphone shit or anything but things like sharing screenshots and videos, live streaming and especially taking control of someone else's game to help them out. I always wanted to do that, now I could directly help out a friend of mine who's often struggling at some games instead of trying to somehow give her advice over the internet. Sony got some great promises there, hope they can deliver!

( Edited 21.02.2013 01:49 by SirLink )

Linkyshinks said:

Sonic_13 said:
So Playstation never actually showed what the PS4 looks like...(or did I miss it?)

No they didn't, we have to wait until E3.

Haha: https://twitter.com/majornelson/status/304396492314128385

Sonic_13 said:

Linkyshinks said:

Sonic_13 said:
So Playstation never actually showed what the PS4 looks like...(or did I miss it?)

No they didn't, we have to wait until E3.

Haha: https://twitter.com/majornelson/status/304396492314128385

Sony's reasoning....http://kotaku.com/5985824

Not bad for pre-alpha footage...

@SuperLink

You're clueless if you think all this is possible on PS3...

And this is just the very tip of the what's to come, I expect to see even better examples at E3 this year, when the big developers are ready to show their wares. The fact that they didn't even show Fumito Ueda's game says it all.

At this years E3, as the whole presentation implied, we'll really start to see the new types of videogames only possible on hardware as powerful as this.

Wii U looks last gen in every conceivable way now, it doesn't even have a "hook" anymore!. PS4 supports multiple displays, Vita, tablets and smart phones, and 720 will likely support the very same for parity.

There's nothing unique about Wii U, it's been made to look uninspired and weakly designed for the expectations of gamers in this age of consoles. It's UI fior starters is a complete joke in light of what PS4 does with "instant-on" services and features, which notably include semingly much improved "RemotePlay" options on Vita's OLED. The Wii U GamePad, and it's lesser screen, isn't even designed to be used outside of the room where the console resides!.

If Wii U cannot provide new videogame experiences on par, and only HD first party Nintendo games, in 720p at best, I think it's future looks bleak, 3DS included because of the potential take-up of Vita and resource shifts from devlopers going into the next gen. Sony have "nearly every" major developer working on PS3, they have the developers support. So much for the claims it'll be too costly to develop for. Even the indie devlopers making smaller project will be able to tap into that power to do new things.

Watch_Dogs PS4

(now we know it was lead - expect all current gen versions to look and feel notably inferior)

Diablo III (even PC stalwart games are coming)

You didn't really listen to what I said.

I didn't say the graphics weren't better, I said they're not shocking anyone, I said that regardless of tech, there are things on PS3 and 360 that look more inspired and make such good use of their technology that they look almost as good as if not as good as some of these during actual gameplay, and that's what makes sense. During actual gameplay, Killzone looked extremely generic. Maybe during cutscenes it has the huge big city landscape with draw-distance up the ass, but during gameplay it looked samey, it looked like a current gen game.

Angi's Philosophy is Square, and honestly who are you kidding when they come out with something and say it's "real time", it almost never is.

Long story short, my point is that like with all tech-demos, regardless of console, overhype what the console is capable of, and I kinda doubt the PS4 is any better. Sure the space between them is getting smaller, but even in these tech-demos there was nothing that made me think "wow, this is like nothing I've ever seen in a game before" in terms of visuals.. because quite a lot of games have already made those impressions on my from the current gen.

Graphical leaps are getting smaller, no amount of WiiU bashing will change that. I'm not even gonna try and suggest the WiiU can put stuff like this out power-wise, I am suggesting that it doesn't really matter anymore. It's more about what the console can do. The PS4 is packed with tons of great features, they are what's gonna make the games shine and be something spectacular, not the sub-shocking visuals.

Plus, as cool as a free-feature like remote-play is, I seriously don't think a huge amount of consumers are going to buy two highly expensive systems to achieve it. The Vita will not magically get the support it needs; and at this point you have to be joking if you think the Vita will outperform the 3DS because the 3DS is quickly becoming an amazingly successful system which is easy for developers to work for.

As inspired?, what's that supposed to mean? It's airy fairy BS.

Linkyshinks said:
As inspired?, what's that supposed to mean? It's airy fairy BS.

Technical superiority does not inherently mean your game will look better, games are crafted.

And seriously, I know you're impressed, I was too and I love the sound of the PS4, but the graphics weren't what impressed me. Or well.. almost anyone. I really don't know anyone who's been seriously impressed or shocked by the visuals save ~4 individuals and I've been actively posting about it in 4 social networks/forums. C3 is the only non-multiplatform one.

I'm not talking about tech, I'm talking about how things look to the average consumer, and as impressive as this tech is, it's not wowing people like it used to. People are fascinated by the PS4 for every reason besides power.

EDIT: Also, the old man's face is reminiscent of that dinosaur tech-demo for the PS1- a lone artefact that you probably won't be seeing in any actual game contacts.
(In any case I thought it was creepily realistic, I'll sooner stop playing games than play games with that level of realism. I dunno about you guys, but I don't want games to look like real life; I fear for the moral and psychological consequences in violent games)

( Edited 21.02.2013 11:40 by SuperLink )

SuperLink said:

Linkyshinks said:
As inspired?, what's that supposed to mean? It's airy fairy BS.

I'm talking about art direction dude, it's a legitimate thing. I'm talking about how games that are technically inferior can stand up because of the way developers have done things or how efficient they are.

Technical superiority does not inherently mean your game will look better, games are crafted.

And seriously, I know you're impressed, I was too and I love the sound of the PS4, but the graphics weren't what impressed me. Or well.. almost anyone. I really don't know anyone who's been seriously impressed or shocked by the visuals save ~4 individuals and I've been actively posting about it in 4 social networks/forums. C3 is the only non-multiplatform one.

I'm not talking about tech, I'm talking about how things look to the average consumer, and as impressive as this tech is, it's not wowing people like it used to. People are fascinated by the PS4 for every reason besides power.

EDIT: Also, the old man's face is reminiscent of that dinosaur tech-demo for the PS1- a lone artefact that you probably won't be seeing in any actual game contacts.
(In any case I thought it was creepily realistic, I'll sooner stop playing games than play games with that level of realism. I dunno about you guys, but I don't want games to look like real life; I fear for the moral and psychological consequences in violent games)

There will be nothing more inspiring that being able to look at a digital counterpart and truly believe that he or she is real, to see their micro-responses and have a window into an artificially cultivated soul. The exact same applies to digital game-worlds. 

The Last Guardian is going to look far better on PS4, and it won't solely be down to it's high quality of art as previous games, but more importantly it's precise physical rendering of that game world, every article I've read on it has led me to that conclusion. 

Linkyshinks said:

There will be nothing more inspiring that being able to look at a digital counterpart and truly believe that he or she is real, to see their micro-responses and have a window into an artificially cultivated soul. The exact same applies to digital game-worlds.

The Last Guardian is going to look far better on PS4, and it won't solely be down to it's high quality of art as previous games, but more importantly it's precise physical rendering of that game world, every article I've read on it has led me to that conclusion. 

Linkyshinks said:
There will be nothing more inspiring that being able to look at a digital counterpart and truly believe that he or she is real, to see their micro-responses and have a window into an artificially cultivated soul. The exact same applies to digital game-worlds.

Besides copying every detail of the human behaviour isn't art... it's reproduction. That old man has little difference left to my old neighbour for example. That's creepily disturbing, highly impressive from a technical point of view, no doubt... But do I want to pay for this when I can just strike up a conversation with my neighbour, for free?? I will get the same experience, and at the same time I will get the sense of having given some of my precious time to an elderly lonely person who will in turn feel good on the inside from the social interaction.

What I do accept though is that technical advancement expands what can be achieved in terms of creative vision... a game like X on WiiU would be further expanded, large and possibly even more enticingly artistic on such a platform, there's no doubt about that. But I personally will never buy into bland realism. The Knack looked more fun to me, if anything.

Indeed, Knack and The Witness were the most visually engaging games of the show to me; by far.

SuperLink said:

Linkyshinks said:

There will be nothing more inspiring that being able to look at a digital counterpart and truly believe that he or she is real, to see their micro-responses and have a window into an artificially cultivated soul. The exact same applies to digital game-worlds.

It's very interesting, creepy, but interesting. I honestly think that once games reach a certain level of realism that can capture the life of human emotion, some groups of people will begin to be further turned off realistic games because it opens realms of doors into morality issues and psychological issues that the lack of realism has used to safely separate the real world from the digital one. Maybe I'm overreacting.. but I would absolutely not be comfortable shooting creepy-old-man in modern gaming's most popular genre.

The Last Guardian is going to look far better on PS4, and it won't solely be down to it's high quality of art as previous games, but more importantly it's precise physical rendering of that game world, every article I've read on it has led me to that conclusion. 

I'll honestly be disappointed if it goes for realism over artistic direction. Of course it'll look better, but it might not be in a truly interesting way. Look at the legitimate complaints for WWHD's art style, it doesn't look cartoony enough despite running on doubtlessly superior tech.

Now your just going on some wayward tangent which has nothing to do with the subject at hand. I don't care how you feel about shooting old men.

BS, fine art direction does not come at the cost of a lack of high quality physics, or the other way around, what a dumb view to have. Both will be on par with each other in this game, and many others in this gen. Fumito Ueda sees artistry is the physical realisation well as the visual, as do the bulk of other developers now.

Now that it's on PS4, the projects "technical difficulties" have completely evaporated.

Realism in gaming can go get knotted, I play games to get away from reality. FF12 became my most hated game for a reason.

That said, PS4 looks set to be my eventual second machine. I love the sharing features that were shown, truly impressive, and reminiscent of what I kinda wanted the WiiU to have. The visual level  though...what I expected really. The games that the end of the machine's life will truly be breathtaking like with current titles versus their respective launch lineups. So far though they just look PS3 level with extras. And I'm glad Vita is getting more attention but as a more expensive WiiU gimmick alternative I'm not sure about. 

I'm also dubious about most of what Sony promised in regards to hardware specs and support. I very very highly doubt this Final Fantasy game will be exclusive, and I'll gladly eat my words if the machine is less than £300, but that is extremely unlikely. And the Vita doesn't have the same amount of buttons and functions as a PS4 pad so that 'getting all PS4 games running on Vita' will have limitations.

Ball's in your court now Microsoft.

Linkyshinks said:

Now your just going on some wayward tangent which has nothing to do with the subject at hand. I don't care how you feel about shooting old men.

BS, fine art direction does not come at the cost of a lack of high quality physics, or the other way around, what a dumb view to have. Both will be on par with each other in this game, and many others in this gen. Fumito Ueda sees artistry is the physical realisation well as the visual, as do the bulk of other developers now.

Now that it's on PS4, the projects "technical difficulties" have completely evaporated.

If what the creator wants to achieve is easier on PS4, then great. As far as I know though, the creator has left Sony, so The Last Guardian may have jumped the shark and end up looking about as "unique" as an Elder Scrolls game.

I think you're all over looking the biggest improvement to the system. Concave analog sticks. Just saying. 

Echoes221 said:
I think you're all over looking the biggest improvement to the system. Concave analog sticks. Just saying. 

Plus, with any luck the D-Pad will be like the frankly amazing Vita D-Pad. DualShock D-Pads have been mediocre always.

Anyway, as with all console reveals, the hype of the situation ignores the less-than-spectacular points of the system.. which Sony have revealed slowly since.

First, the good news, there will be physical games and second hand games will still work

Now, the bad;
Not only is the PS3 not backward compatible; it won't transfer PSN titles over either. That means that, at least initially, your lovely connection of PSN greats won't be playable on the PS4.
http://www.engadget.com/2013/02/21/sony-psn-games-wont-transfer-to-ps4/ - source
I'm sure they'll add em eventually in some form, but this is definitely bad news for me. Skullgirls, Sonic CD, and inevitably Journey.. I spend so much time on PSN games, I had taken the option of transfer for granted when so many games can be transferred to Vita already. Surprising that even the WiiU's pretty-archaic backward compatibility with the Wii Mode is still letting you use all that old stuff you downloaded without additional cost. So I really hope this doesn't take long to change.

Also, practically proving my point (and reaffirming what we've ever learnt from console tech-demos), Unreal Engine 4 actually looks "worse" in yesterday's presentation than it did last year. (however at the same time, it probably means it's closer to actual gameplay)