More Sonic SH*T

The latest installment on Wii has received a 3.9 on IGN, while on Nintendo Power, it got an 8. While Famitsu gave the game the inevitable arse licking scores of 7s and thereabouts.

http://uk.wii.ign.com/articles/958/958855p1.html

IGN make the game sound woeful in every aspect of it\'s design.

If I were some kind of videogame terrorist I would blow up Sonic Team\'s HQ and send them all to hell.

Sonic is now officially dead!

( Edited 04.03.2009 05:56 by Linkyshinks )

Wow, didn't expect this. Then again I'm not sure on who to trust, so I'll just wait for Giant Bomb to review it.

Big whoop, IGN have given low scores to great games before. GodHand anyone?

All the low reviews for 360 Sonic Unleashed have proven to me that reviewers for Sonic titles just don\'t know what the hell they\'re talking about. Unleashed is an absolutely fantastic game, and I sure as hell don\'t expect Black Knight to be worse than Shadow for flips sake.

I\'ll judge this one when I play it.

( Edited 04.03.2009 08:55 by Phoenixus )

Like I said in another thread, IGN are nothing but trolls when it comes to Sonic, and I absolutely do not take their views with anything than a pinch of salt nowadays. Especially after how good Sonic Unleashed was.

How could IGN give this a lower Score Sonic 2006 (360), something isn't right here but then again IGN gave TOS 2 a 6.8 so they can't review games for shit.

I don\'t know. I\'ve just read the IGN review for Unleashed and it doesn\'t seem to be deriding the game unfairly. They like the daytime bits, hate the werehog bits. Much like everyone else. How is that troll-like? The final score reflects the ratio of day:night stages.

I\'ve only played the demo, and the daytime opening stage certainly wasn\'t perfect, but it was pretty good. Too much emphasis on speed in the 3D bits, although it better suits the 2D sections. The level design wasn\'t bad, and I think excellent flowing level design is the main element of the best Sonic games. Speed is a very distant second.

According to this review, the level design for Black Knight is toilet. Being such an integral part of a Sonic game the score reflects that.

Who knows, maybe it\'s a masterpiece. But I don\'t think they can be called trolls.

( Edited 04.03.2009 12:09 by dartmonkey )

Why, by giving it 7s, are Famitsu arse licking?

Nintendo Power gave it an 8 so I\'m willing to keep an open mind till I try it out myself.

IGN make the game sound woeful in every aspect of it\'s design.

I don\'t mind the Voice acting in Sonic games. The game doesn\'t need a brilliant script or excellent voice acting. It\'s Sonic, not the lord of the rings.

( Edited 04.03.2009 12:13 by wAyNe - sTaRT )

I don't mind the Voice acting in Sonic games. The game doesn't need a brilliant script or excellent voice acting. It's Sonic, not the lord of the rings.

So why inlcude it in the first place?

Mario_0 said:
So why inlcude it in the first place?

dartmonkey said:
I don't know. I've just read the IGN review for Unleashed and it doesn't seem to be deriding the game unfairly. They like the daytime bits, hate the werehog bits. Much like everyone else. How is that troll-like? The final score reflects the ratio of day:night stages.

Who knows, maybe it's a masterpiece. But I don't think they can be called trolls.

As for level design, the design of old Sonic games never felt like it was what I played the games for. I think of games where level design just shouts at me, Sonic isn't one of them.

Play any hack of an old Sonic game, and regardless of developer, you will still get that retro feel. Stage design has nothing to do with it.

@ Wayne:

Famitsu Sonic Unleashed: 9997

You should see their previous scores for Sonic games over there years, games where the common consenus is that they are crap.

Nintendo Power are equally dubious, I did not imply that in the OP because I thought that was obvious to everyone.

( Edited 04.03.2009 13:50 by Linkyshinks )

Your post reeks of "new sonic" bull shittery

SuperLink said:

Mario_0 said:
So why inlcude it in the first place?

Sonic's kid friendly, and kids love cheese. Sonic is your typical cheesy hero, isn't he? Nothing wrong with that. I don't know what's worse about modern Sonic stories to the old cartoons everyone loved so much. Sonic went to Medeival times in the cartoon, but now he does it in the games and everyone hates him for it? That's "classic Sonic" blindness if I ever saw it.

dartmonkey said:
I don't know. I've just read the IGN review for Unleashed and it doesn't seem to be deriding the game unfairly. They like the daytime bits, hate the werehog bits. Much like everyone else. How is that troll-like? The final score reflects the ratio of day:night stages.

No, it doesn't. You have 21 Day stages to play, and only 13 Night stages, HALF of those Night stages are mandatory. IGN scored Unleashed as if Werehog was ALL the game had to offer, the score seems to completely ignore the fact that the 3D Speed gameplay is the best and most flawless Sonic has ever been in 3D.

Who knows, maybe it's a masterpiece. But I don't think they can be called trolls.

IGN hate Sonic and their presuppositions don't let them enjoy the games. They approach the games with increasing negativity after the previous games have disappointed them, and will continue giving them bad reviews. I assume this will seep into future 2D Sonic games also. The only chance Sonic has of getting a good score from IGN is if he puts on a lot of weight and his eyes lose all their green.

As for level design, the design of old Sonic games never felt like it was what I played the games for. I think of games where level design just shouts at me, Sonic isn't one of them.

Play any hack of an old Sonic game, and regardless of developer, you will still get that retro feel. Stage design has nothing to do with it.

Stop being so fucking defensive.

SuperLink said:
As for level design, the design of old Sonic games never felt like it was what I played the games for. I think of games where level design just shouts at me, Sonic isn\'t one of them.

Play any hack of an old Sonic game, and regardless of developer, you will still get that retro feel. Stage design has nothing to do with it.

And if you play \'any\' old hack you\'ll quickly discover that the \'retro feel\' is all about stage design. In those hacks there\'s nearly always platforms in the \'wrong\' place, obstructing the flow of play. It\'s not just about throwing in springs, boxes and other elements - as many of the 3D Sonics have shown.

Stage design is the most crucial element, especially if you\'re going to ramp up the speed.

( Edited 04.03.2009 14:05 by dartmonkey )

level design is important, especially in sonic games. i've said it before and i'll say it again the sooner sega realise that sonic belongs in 2d the better the games will be. the game can have 3d elements but the core game needs to be in 2d or 2.5d

I think Sonic level design has always been terrible. Honestly I don\'t even think the very concept of Sonic works. When it\'s moving quickly, you\'re hardly doing anything, and when they add in obstacles for you to overcome, they ALWAYS slow you down and break the pace, regardless of how good you are or how flawlessly you overcome the obstacles. And it\'s been like that since the originals. Waiting for those moving block-stairs in Chemical Plant Zone? Honestly I don\'t know why anyone can rave about the original Sonics for any reason other than nostalgia. They get boring/frustrating after about 20 minutes. Honestly I think the Adventure games are better than the originals at least because they keep me interested for a lot longer.

I\'ve not played Unleashed yet, but the demo kind of put me off. Everyone says it\'s amazing...but everyone said Secret Rings was amazing, and I find that nearly unplayable due to the controls being so bad. I can only assume people have a new definition of \'good\' specially for Sonic games. \'Good\' now equals \'playable without wanting to tear your eyes out\'. People\'s standards must have just plummeted after the likes of Sonic 2006.

All that said, I think I might be happy if they just god rid of that god-awful glitchy homing attack.

( Edited 04.03.2009 14:29 by Ikana )

My last post was a little rushed since I realised at the last minute I had a lesson to get to, so some of my points didn\'t come out quite right. Especially the stage design bit, as some of the hacks I\'ve played can\'t begin to compare to real Sonic games (although I bet anything IGN would give every single one of those hacks at least a 7)

The stage design for Shadow The Hedgehog was bland, and tedious. The stage design for Sonic 2006 was utterly broken. Sonic Unleashed on the other hand, while it did keep on moving, was very impressive, especially visually. There is a lot more emphasis on platforming in later stages, but one of the best things about Unleashed has to be what a treat it is on the eyes.

Adabat has a good stage design that is ultimately ruined with the poor frame rate, which is a bit of a shame.

As for Werehog, that\'s better compared to Shadow. Big dull stages that don\'t really look like a Sonic game (though a few stages on Shadow were very Sonic-y)

When a game is on rails like Secret Rings or Black Knight, the exploration should probably be thrown out the window in favour of fun, especially since going backwards was annoying in Secret Rings. My biggest worry with Black Knight is enemies slowing the action down to a halt, but I can still see the game being good fun.

My problem is IGN, and other reviewers. Anyone can play this next to Sonic 2006 to see that there is something horribly wrong with their scoring.

Also the thread title bothers me, full stop, because 2006 was the year that showed almost NO hope for Sonic. After Sonic 2006 came out, Secret Rings was looking to be the nail in the coffin, which thankfully it was actually decent enough. Now in 2009, the statement couldn\'t be more wrong. Sonic Unleashed and Sonic Chronicles have given Sonic fans a good amount of hope.

2006 - Sonic The Craphog
2007 - Sonic and the Secret Rings - Good
Sonic Rush Adventure - great
2008 - Sonic Chronicles - Very Good
2008 - Sonic Unleashed - Very Good

4 good titles in the last 2 years alone, and nothing new confirmed yet. This means they\'re probably working on something (and hopefully will take longer with it) or giving him a break.

EDIT: Oh, and on the speed, ANYONE can have character design. What is it that stops Sonic from joining the junkheap with Crash and Spyro? Speed. Anything Crash and Spyro do, Mario does (better). There\'s one thing that gives Sonic the edge, and he\'s known for it, so Sonic Team will constantly try to put that into his gameplay.

EDIT2: LS is slightly wrong about Famitsu\'s score.

( Edited 04.03.2009 14:54 by SuperLink )

Matt C juts troll'd yo' asses beeyaaarrrtches.

Saying all that I commend Matt for not lying about the graphics and sound as Hilary did with Unleashed.

Personally, I\'m not really surprised by the score, I don\'t think it looks very good at all. The visuals look good, but that\'s about it for me.

I\'ll have to read the review later, that way I can form a better opinion of it.

Also, IGN gave the Wii version of Unleashed a very fair score, in my opinion. They have different teams, Matt never reviewed the Xbox version. I wouldn\'t call the trolls, I think the Nintendo team on IGN are fantastic.

I don\'t know how anyone could say it\'s good yet, without playing it themselves.

People need to relax a litte, it\'s not the end of the world, but it could be for Sonic...

( Edited 04.03.2009 17:16 by Marzy )

What they really need to do is take sonic rush and flip it so you are behind the character and make it full 3D, nothing more, nothing less. have all the loops, have no crawling along ledges and shiz like that, just have a speed fest that involves gravity defiying loops, awesome rails and enemies that you can boost into so you don't actually have to stop. Also they can keep the same trick system to keep the boost up. It should be things like on sonic rush I can complete the first stage in just over 1 min (and beat SL at the same time) maybe have them longer, but keep the core speed. have NO leveling up. your fast straight off the bat, no extra power ups, just rings to collect. You should be able to move side to side to choose different paths and dodge the ocasional enemy but other than that, keep it linear.

the closest they came in my opinion was Adventure 2:battle. All the levels had great flow and speed, which unfortunately, they never carried into any of the other games even sonic and the secret rings. I mean, your running and then your fired at a wall/ledge and you have to sidestep REALLY slowly to get past all the spikes, thats not flow, its just pointless!

Sonic Unleashed is a bit like what you just described. And the stages are HUGE.

SuperLink said:
Sonic Unleashed is a bit like what you just described. And the stages are HUGE.

You saying that is quite a contrast to what artmonkey said up there. So what is Sonic about, speed or not?

The fact of the matter is, Werehog is filler, that\'s the best way to put it. It\'s to make the game longer, I know it\'s a fucking lame excuse, but it\'s not mine. But guess what? We get Werehog instead of shoot\'emups/treasure hunting, and more than half of the game is all speed, and what a speed it is.

( Edited 04.03.2009 18:17 by SuperLink )

SuperLink said:
You saying that is quite a contrast to what artmonkey said up there. So what is Sonic about, speed or not?

The fact of the matter is, Werehog is filler, that's the best way to put it. It's to make the game longer, I know it's a fucking lame excuse, but it's not mine. But guess what? We get Werehog instead of shoot'emups/treasure hunting, and more than half of the game is all speed, and what a speed it is.

No way am I saying the Werehog is a good idea, but I'm saying that once you've gotten his stages out of the way, it can't distract from what is otherwise a really good game.

THAT is how Sonic should be in 3D. I'm playing Secret Rings atm and it's not funny how much better Unleashed works than it. People who say Sonic has no hope in 3D should play some of the daytime stages for Unleashed. They may be a bit overrated (mainly because it's a really big deal for Sonic fans) but it's easy enough to see why people get in a fuss about them once you play it a few times.

The learning curve is a bit weird though, not as weird as Secret Rings' mind you.

Imo there\'s no point in playing Sonic if you can barely make out the level and you\'re running at stupidly fast speeds.

I once saw a blog... somewhere that said \"Let\'s Make sonic run run\".

Fuck sakes, it\'s not all about running!

I\'m sorry, but there needs to be a balance, and I\'m not talking old or new games here, but in a majority of Sonic games he\'s fast - but not too fast - you can see what\'s coming up, slow down if you need to, and speed up if you know what\'s coming up.

In some Sonic games, dare I say Rush included, it\'s gotten a little too fast, and it shouldn\'t be about holding right and pressing boost boost fucking boost. Sonic doesn\'t need red bull; he needs a nice cuppa tea/coffee with enough sugar to give him a good speed but not so fast that you end up falling in pits or not having enough time to avoid/attack obstacles.

There\'s also no point in having speed when the controls aren\'t fine tuned - Adventure 1/2 had a decent level of speed but were let down by some loose control that you could end up falling out of bounds or off ledges not because you\'re unaware, but because moving Sonic wasn\'t tight enough.

The Advance series has the closest balance of speed and precision I think, of recent years anyway. Rush I feel is a great pair of games, but moves a little too fast imo - I don\'t think there should be manual boosting, or if there is, tone it down a little.

Level design is very important in Sonic games, you don\'t have to necessarily be moving all the time, or fast all the time, but it needs to be well thought out so areas connect, and you\'re not left looking for where to go, or falling in random pits.

Unleashed has some great level designs, and nice transitions, but needed to slow down a little - and vary the types of enemies between levels. There's no point in having gorgeous backdrops when ur blazing through non-stop.

Anyone who says Sonic should be all about non-stop running should stick their head up Eggman arse.


( Edited 04.03.2009 18:39 by jb )