Official Wii U Discussion Thread

My guess in this instance is that people are agreeing that things are too negative, whether on or off C3, and you haven't been as vocal about negativity, maybe because you haven't been on sites where things are really negative but I won't assume. Either way it's probably due to not understanding but I'm sure it's never anything personal.

I'll say again that criticising Nintendo isn't the thing that people here seem to have a problem with, we almost all criticise Nintendo in our own way, I hate the 50Hz thing and I think their marketing has been piss-poor, however even people who criticise Nintendo think that things can get too negative. And they're not saying it's you being too negative, whether or not you agree about negativity around the net being an issue. A lot of that negativity that irritates me (and presumably others) is from the industry itself, i.e. third party comments and stances towards the thing, especially the more hypocritical ones. (and I'm not saying I can do anything about it but I'd be lying if I said it wasn't irksomne)

I'm just saying that the sort of negativity that bugs me isn't current problems that can and will be solved, it's the sort of bleak future outlook like "WiiU will get no support" or "opposing systems will destroy WiiU in terms of power and support" or "WiiU has failed" and I'm pretty sure you haven't been actively making comments like that which is why I don't believe anyone is singling you out- because I'm also pretty sure that's the kind of 'doom gloom criticism' that most people here are fed up of.

( Edited 05.02.2013 13:32 by SuperLink )

Yeah, no one is singling you out, Az. I speak about the internet as a whole, including Cubed3. It gets kind of tiring to hear the same things said over and over again, that's all. I see the same stale stuff being said over many gaming sties. That's not to say people can't have their opinion, but to keep going over it isn't really needed. I think I saw about 10 posts on Miiverse about Virtual Console games being 50hz from just one person and they came across as disrespectful and whining. A simple "Please could you make the VC games 60hz in Europe? Many thanks Marzy" is all that's needed and shows much more respect and calm attitude about it all.

@SuperLink: You're welcome.

( Edited 05.02.2013 14:54 by Marzy )

I hope it is misunderstanding, although that would still be a shame since I'd have thought most would be able to see my points of view. This did stem from taking my post about new hardware the wrong way, after all. I think it's safe to assume you'll be taking the member of the week off me for next week, SL! lol

lol Marzy, if only it were that easy. I do think you need people to be very direct and outspoken about such an important issue like 50Hz. I think the more people express how strongly they feel about it, the more it gets the message across. Every message helps, so the polite one-off posts are welcome, but it is something that has to be continuously pushed over and over to get through. Not necessarily in an insulting way, but expressing that we do feel mistreated and threats to boycott the VC I feel are rational and entitled comments to make.

Azuardo said:
I hope it is misunderstanding, although that would still be a shame since I'd have thought most would be able to see my points of view. This did stem from taking my post about new hardware the wrong way, after all. I think it's safe to assume you'll be taking the member of the week off me for next week, SL! lol

I would say it's a misunderstanding to the effect that I was outspoken about negativity soon after you made a point about new hardware, which probably caused the idea that I was arguing against you. If anything that point reminded me even more than there was nothing to be worried about. My initial post really didn't intend to antagonise yours, but merely used that idea of a contingency plan as a basis for more optimism surrounded by the other points in my post.

So really I think there's been misunderstanding all around, sorry about that.
And I won't be counting my chickens before they hatch

Scribblenauts U is Delayed in Europe

It has come to light that some changes need to be implemented within the game before we launch them across Europe. We are very sorry for any inconvenience this may cause and we hope to make further announcements on the European launch of these games very soon.

Glad you can see from my point of view, then, when I got a response like that, followed by 50 more posts where I felt I was fighting the rest of the site just for people misunderstanding.

All I did was speculate that this new hardware could be a high-end machine that cuts the Wii U's life short at about 3 years old. It's not intended to be negative, but I can see why people might think that. Just saying it's a possibility. Otherwise, like I said, it could be something else entirely, like a tablet or phone, or something completely different, and the Wii U can go on to sport a 5-year cycle.

Re: Scribblenauts. This delay has to be down to European language issues, surely. UK has to suffer.

Nintendo wouldn't compete with Apple in the pad and phone market, there's way too much competition to put out a dedicated gaming device in those areas, consumers demand versatility from those portable items. 

Not sure what else I think it could be, other than a high-end console. Might be something out of left field.

Y'know, there's two ways to see this. There's the vibe that everything is negative, and then there's the vibe I see where if you dare to be negative you'll be chastised for not being positive. 

Bottom line is that opinions are opinions and there's no reason for people to be so personally upset about them. This isn't like the old C3 days where we had a lot of folks who would troll Nintendo in a way meant only to inflame. I feel like most of the members who are saying negative things are doing so from the right place -- wanting Nintendo to fix the problem and bringing awareness to real issues.

Creating a Nintendo optimism thread is fine. Do it! Keep talking about the good stuff. But getting on Az and these invisible others for daring to discuss topics that don't come straight out of Nintendo's PR talking points is silly to me.

All in all, I just feel like the whole debate is silly and almost passive aggressive. I'm not trying to fan the flames as they're about to settle, but it irks me that I'm not supposed to say anything as I see Nintendo make mistakes. And all because it might offend the sensibilities of people who only want to see propaganda.

( Edited 05.02.2013 15:54 by Jacob4000 )

Yeah, cheers Jacob.

There's the vibe that everything is negative, and then there's the vibe I see where if you dare to be negative you'll be chastised for not being positive.

Bottom line is that opinions are opinions and there's no reason for people to be so personally upset about them. This isn't like the old C3 days where we had a lot of folks who would troll Nintendo in a way meant only to inflame. I feel like most of the members who are saying negative things are doing so from the right place -- wanting Nintendo to fix the problem and bringing awareness to real issues.

it irks me that I'm not supposed to say anything as I see Nintendo make mistakes. And all because it might offend the sensibilities of people who only want to see propaganda.

I am always speaking from the right place when I bring up negative points and mistakes I feel Nintendo is making, and people really shouldn't be offended by that. Certain issues need to be brought to attention and spoken about loudly. If everyone ignored it, nothing would get done.

Indeed, there's now that part of me that feels like I cannot speak out about things I feel Nintendo is doing wrong for fear people will be offended/annoyed/get pissed off/refuse to post/etc. I'd like to think I will continue to speak out about issues that are important to me, though. Course, this goes both ways - I'll always give credit where credit is due. But I don't want people to start hating me and making me feel like piggy in the middle just because I like to voice my concerns. I have never had a problem with people being honest and vocal about things which bother them.

( Edited 05.02.2013 16:07 by Azuardo )

You missed the point Jacob, no one was having a go at Az or C3's community (at least I wasn't!), this is about unreasonable negativity in general, on and mostly off of C3 and I feel like members are entitled to express disappointment at that negativity. And again, I too feel it's important to raise things like 50Hz and marketing, and again, that's not the kind of "negativity" I'm irked about, that's very reasonable criticism that will hopefully be rectified. I'm not talking about Nintendo's mistakes, I'm talking about the "Nintendo is doomed" attitude around the net lately, I'm talking about the "Nintendo should die and become a third party for not pushing console power to the same level as competitors."

I almost feel regretful for speaking out on this thread about the WiiU negativity, because there's now this misconception that it was a passive aggressive personal attack on C3 members; members I happen to agree with on many points.
I simply wished to rally a little more positivity and hopefully get more people to see that things aren't so bad or even bad at all. Never was my intention to "call people out" or tell people off for being negative, just encourage a little more positive. I'm sorry that it was taken that way.

( Edited 05.02.2013 16:12 by SuperLink )

The Digital Foundry article is clickbait, they literally took some work from Chipworks which was a photo and article made for Neogaf, ignored most of the chip and just went for what Neogaf discovered thus far, which wasn't very much other than identifying some of the shader modules, the EDRAM and some connectors, and ran with it. Most of that chip is still unidentified stuff.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=511628

( Edited 05.02.2013 16:17 by Stulaw )

With so much multiplatform uncertainty surrounding Wii U, Nintendo exclusives will need to improve significantly this gen...

I won't pretend I didn't feel like I was ganged up on, because I did, but hopefully with those last couple of posts from me and Jacob, everyone can understand that we always mean well when we speak openly about decisions that irk us. I'd like to think we're all mature enough to respect each other's views and allow people to speak freely about what they don't (and do) agree with. It is never intended to offend, nor should anybody refuse to post because of it. Likewise, I don't think posters that do speak critically should be made to feel like they're being whiny bitches that hate Nintendo - we're all here for the same reasons.

But like Jacob says, make that Nintendo optimism topic - post about why you love Nintendo and how much fun you're having with Wii U and what you can't wait for in the future. The less people post, the more you'll only see the critical comments. Just please understand where I come from when I ever speak critically - it's with a good heart because I speak for what I want as a Nintendo customer, and it's more importantly a matter of opinion. Please don't let it offend you.

Hopefully I haven't lost any friends after all this.

@LS: That thing's hardly accurate, seems to only show results for games released since late 2011. Wii doubtlessly has some of the best exclusives of Gen7, regardless of hardware issues; and that image conveniently skews that fact.

EDIT @Az: No worries dude, I'm sorry it seemed like you were being ganged up on, it wasn't my intention at all. I suppose there were just some C3ers who felt they were alone in their praise and didn't want to be ganged up on likewise and so stayed silent til I piped up. I'm usually pretty bad with taking things personally myself so I definitely know how you feel, and I want to reiterate that there are no hard feelings towards you or Jacob at all!

( Edited 05.02.2013 16:33 by SuperLink )

Like I said last night: it's all gravy dude. I think it's important to reiterate that we are all Nintendo gamers and fans. Yes, even me and Jacob! But we all come from the same place and ultimately want the same things - just some of us want a few different things, too. In its simplest form, this is the only difference between us. Either you're satisfied with something, or you're not. And I think we can all respect differing opinions on that.

Linkyshinks said:
With so much multiplatform uncertainty surrounding Wii U, Nintendo exclusives will need to improve significantly this gen...

Yeah that only takes into account the timeframe from when skyward sword was released(which was pretty much nintendo's last game before they switched focus to the Wii U). There are way more than 2 with 90+ averages

I haven't been posting on C3 as much as I would like to, either I get too busy, or I just become plain lazy. But, like I've said before, I think it's ok to give constructive criticism of anything. If you keep telling someone that they're the best, then that's what they're gonna believe. There's little room for improvement. Now, on the opposite side, straight up being vicious isn't gonna help either. Way too much negativity is never good. If the issue is something that is really important and vital, then someone has to stand up to say something.

For example, my experience with the WiiU so far I would say is probably average. The only reason I say this is, in my point of view, a lack of stellar exclusive games. I know, I know, Nintendo's gonna come out this year with tons of awesome titles (Pikmin 3, Mario, Zelda, Yoshi, Smash etc). I think this E3 has the potential to be one of Nintendo's best even. But, up till now, the WiiU hasn't really had much to amaze me past the cool tablet controller. Honestly though (not being entirely negative haha), I'm a little worried about Nintendo's future. My reason for this isn't so much Nintendo though. They're doing all that they can. It's the fact that Sony and Microsoft are gonna come out with next gen consoles that might potentially and graphically blow the WiiU out of the water. But then again, the Wii completely destroyed the PS3 and 360, so what do I know haha?

However, saying all this, like Jacob and Az said, everyone has the right to their own opinions and feelings. That's what makes us humans!

edit: Also, I think a major reason of this negativity vibe comes from sites like kotaku who, as of late, are very critical with little to back their arguments up. One major reason as to why I stopped reading that site (even though Stephen Totilo is an awesome writer).


( Edited 05.02.2013 18:02 by bornforthis43 )

Don't get me fucking started on Kotaku. After one of their latest articles basically laughing at Europeans and our 50Hz treatment, that was the last straw for me and they'll not get a single hit out of me again, as long as I can help it. They went down in my book many years ago, and have progressively got worse, until the point now where I can just outright say the site is shit.

Woah, i seemed have fallen behind majorly on this thread! It just took me a while to catch up with what happened with so many posts in a few days. 

I can see where SuperLink is coming from, we are all (for the best part) life long Nintendo fans, we have seen them at their "high" points and the "low" points. But this is all media perception, people don't question anything they read anymore, they take everything as gospel, and Nintendo's fan base seems to be jumping on the bandwagon and joining in on the Nintendo-bashing. For those loyal devotees of Nintendo they just can't understand why people would turn against their beloved Nintendo. Look at Linkyshinks picture a few posts back, people don't always look into the underneath and assume such a thing is true. I only just found out that NewsCorp used to own IGN! 

On the other hand the criticism is key to improvement, companies need to know what will make their products/services better, Feedback like this can be fed into MiiVerse which can be utilized in this way, if used properly by Nintendo and other 3rd parties this could be used as key market research or at least a little more insight into gamers opinions. Like others here I have been also very vocal about the 50hz debate on MiiVerse , moreso just to see if Nintendo will actually listen...if they don't at least address the issue then it might be a bit of a waste of time...but also disappointing.

Az, i really wouldn't think people would specifically target you, or anyone on this forum. I think you might have mis-interpreted some of the comments maybe, but i wouldn't say anyone would dis-respect your opinion at all. So i wouldn't become so self conscious about it, i for one agree with a lot of things you tend to say on the forum.

I love the construction of some of people's post on here. They are so well thought-out and very educated compared to any other forums I have ever seen. 

The majority of us here have been playing games for 20 years or so now, and we have seen a lot of changes, we have grown up with a lot of IP's and we have witnessed the downfall of some great gaming companies. We are educated in this industry, but we should also know that we can predict  what will happen as much as we want but the 'expected' never happens...industry paid 'experts' countlessly get it wrong but people still buy into their theories and beliefs. Unfortunately the more popular the gaming industry has become the more video game journalism has turned into the "Daily Mail" column of complaining. 

I am not innocent, I complain about Nintendo's strategy and even some of their games more than anyone, but do I still buy their products? Yes......we all do eventually, and i can't say many of us ever really regret it in the long run.

After the Nintendo Direct conference a couple of weeks ago I feel a lot more positive about Nintendo's offering in the next year or so. They surprised me that they revealed this information when they did, but at the same time I wasn't surprised that they were working on any of these projects. 

Let's just enjoy games for what they are and not take things too seriously...

JayUK said:

Linkyshinks said:
With so much multiplatform uncertainty surrounding Wii U, Nintendo exclusives will need to improve significantly this gen...

Yeah that only takes into account the timeframe from when skyward sword was released(which was pretty much nintendo's last game before they switched focus to the Wii U). There are way more than 2 with 90+ averages

&SL

I'm well aware of that, that isn't the point, look at the number of exclusive games 360 and PS3 are getting so late in their life, it speaks volumes about continued confidence developers have with them, and it will carry over.

The fact you even have to mention Nintendo is sad. Exclusives should come from any quality developer.

( Edited 05.02.2013 22:48 by Linkyshinks )

Linkyshinks said:
I'm well aware of that, that isn't the point, look at the number of exclusive games 360 and PS3 are getting so late in their life, it speaks volumes about continued confidence developers have with them, and it will carry over.

The fact you even have to mention Nintendo is sad. Exclusives should come from any quality developer.

Of courses devs don't have confidence in the Wii it was a gimmick machine mostly used for quick money, but even then Nintendo were able to release a good trickle of great games for it. Nintendo is just one developer who quite often carries all the weight of two successful systems at once by themselves. Don't tell me that isn't impressive.

Yeah third party support isn't great but when has it been for Nintendo? Don't talk about Nintendo's "golden days" and then talk about how gr8 the late years of the N64 and GC were because they got about 2/3 quality first party games in their last two years and that's it. Nintendo haven't changed.

NES and Super Nintendo got quality games all throughout their lives. If there was ever golden era, it was the Super Nintendo era, never the N64 or GC.

Super Nintendo. 

Linkyshinks said:
NES and Super Nintendo got quality games all throughout their lives. If there was ever golden era, it was the Super Nintendo era, never the N64 or GC.

Super Nintendo. 

Plus Nintendo's only competant competitor back then was SEGA and hahaha SEGA marketing, they're a company who have had incessant internal fissures since their inception.

EDIT: Even more importantly, this just proves that it's nothing to do with console power? N64 and GC were top notch power-wise, yet you don't consider them to be golden era Nintendo systems. There's more to a Nintendo system than power (Master System was far more powerful than the NES comparitively), and if WiiU can get the game quality games then power is a non-point.

( Edited 05.02.2013 23:24 by SuperLink )