Final Fantasy

Anyone could argue they've already bettered VII with IX or X. Famitsu readers voting FFX as best game ever might even say the majority over there think VII has been beaten. Wada obviously disagrees, which is a bold statement. Could be a long time before the VII remake happens. Hell, that supposed 20-year compilation of FFVII might not be far from the truth in the end. 2017 sounds reasonable!

I think it's an impossible task to make a FF game that's 'better' than FFVII because many people, no matter how good the game is, will still say that they prefer FFVII. Nostalgia plays a huge part here, similar to how many people still consider Ocarina of Time as the best Zelda game (though there's seemingly been a small shift to MM/TWW and others lately). It's also interesting how both were the first 3D games for their respective series. Might just be more than pure coincidence.

Personally, I was never really interested in all those debates about Zelda and now that I've played most main FF's (only missing VI, X and XII not counting the MMORPGs) I feel similarly here. All of the games are great in their own way (and for their point in time), each bringing something different to the table, especially when it comes to battle mechanics. Particularly with older games though, the experience and memories vary a lot among fans and simply nothing can compare to having played milestones like FFVII when they first came out.

Of course, everyone will have differing opinions. In a life or death situation, I would have to pick VII for obvious reasons (first RPG, first FF game), but I love each one on their own merits equally. Love IX's style and humour, love X's battle system and story, love XII's open world.

But it doesn't sound like he's saying anything about what fans consider better or worse than VII. This is his opinion, which is pretty big. I'm curious to know what Wada thinks about all the post-VII FFs to make him think they're all inferior to it. I'd say in particular IX and X could easily be considered better. Would love to know why he thinks differently.

It's kinda interesting to think Nintendo always refer to trying to better Ocarina of Time, too. They as a group must consider OoT their best Zelda.

( Edited 26.06.2012 19:56 by Azuardo )

Thanks for the info, Azuardo! Level grinding time!!!

Sirlink said: Particularly with older games though, the experience and memories vary a lot among fans and simply nothing can compare to having played milestones like FFVII when they first came out.

Speaking of Versus XIII and unreleased games, will Type-0 EVER see a western release? I'd import it, but Play Asia wants close to $100 for the darned thing. Have we heard ANYTHING???

( Edited 26.06.2012 20:09 by Duggler657 )

You're welcome.

Ha, I remember those days of first playing games with more than one disc. I thought FFVII was huge until VIII and Shenmue came along with their four CDs.

Type-0 has been spoken of being brought over to the West in, I believe, the game's Ultimania, written in Japanese. No official confirmation, but I would expect it to happen eventually. Problem is of course that the PSP is dying a death over here, unlike in Japan, so they're likely fixing it up for Vita and possibly to run on PS3. I certainly wouldn't import that much for it. It'll likely happen in good time.

Azuardo said: they're likely fixing it up for Vita and possibly to run on PS3. I certainly wouldn't import that much for it. It'll likely happen in good time.

Would have been nice, but would unlikely have got anywhere near the sales and love it should have, wasting a lot of time and money. I doubt PS3, since Sony might want them to drive Vita sales by making it Vita-only, but at the same time, more people would buy the game itself if it went on both platforms. I know I'll buy it either way, though. So many positive reviews, with some saying it's the best FF in years.

( Edited 26.06.2012 20:39 by Azuardo )

When you say first RPG & First FF do you mean YOUR first FF experience Azuardo?

Yes. Do you really think I think VII was the first FF game and RPG to exist?

It's not quite FF, but is anyone else here really excited for Bravely Default: Flying Fairy? Especially this preview from the recent demo made me even more interested because FFIII DS was my first FF and I loved the battle system to bits. Strictly turn-based and with multiple hits (loved watching characters deal 32 hits in an unrealistic fashion lol) but enhanced with a few new mechanics to mix things up a bit sounds brilliant to me.

Well THAT'S the problem with most fans of 7, it was their first FF experience & therefore they've got a biased favor of it. It's reasons like that is why veteran FF players HATE 7 & cannot take it's fanbase seriously, they're blind do to their first experience. A professional can take a step back to properly examine something with an equal mindset. My first Final Fantasy WAS THE first Final Fantasy on NES, yet that's not my favourite & I played 4 (FF2) THEN 6 (FF3). My first Mario was actually Mario 2 (aka Doki Doki Panic) yet Mario bros. 3 is still my fav to this day.

Here are just a FEW problems with 7 that cause it to fall from being #1 with ANY respectable gamer.

1:Cloud is pretty annoying & lacks confidence, Zack is a FAR better hero.

2:Berret is a poor representation of black people in games, excessive swearing is NEVER respectable in video games or any media.

3:The ENTIRE Wall Market sequence was just inappropriate & unnecessary, if they include that exact sequence (& Tifa's original bust size) the 7 remake might just get an M rating...

4ephiroth is a cool LOOKING villian...but his entire quest IS A LIE!! I don't know many people who can respect a villian who makes up his own answers. Ol Seph also hasn't done NEARLY half as much evil deeds as Kefka has...nor any other FF Villian to date for that matter.

5:Hojo IS the true villian in Final Fantasy 7...but how many of it's "fans" actually realize this fact, so you guys even think of Hojo when you think of FF main villians? Cause he's the one to blame for starting all the shit that hit the fan. He created SOLDIER, he augmented humans when he found Jenova (who was harmless if Hojo hadn't screwed with her) he killed Prof: Gast & RAPED Aeris' mother to make Sephiroth...which I'd say comes pretty close to some of the messed up stuff Kefka does. So in EVERY respect Hojo is a much better villian than Ol Seph.

As I said Sephiroth DOES INDEED look cool & has a great theme I'll agree...but how many villians are truely evil because of their "looks" does Adolf Hitler look impressive to anyone? No, yet he is one of the MOST vile human beings to walk the planet AND he has been responsible foe ending more human lives than ANY person in history...only the immature of mind would say Sephiroth is an impressive villian.

Just from my tough decision on calling VII my fave for personal reasons, you've overreacted big time there. I respect your opinion, Vorash, but there wasn't any need at all for it. You're making an argument for no reason. It seems to me that just because you don't like FFVII, you have to go nuts at everyone who has the opposite opinion. I'm not sure why you feel the need to list reasons for you disliking the game every time someone says they like VII. We get it: you don't like it. Bear in mind that I have this horrible time choosing my fave FF, and it's pretty crazy how you flip out at me ranking VII just a pipsqueak of a mark higher than the rest. It's not even as if I'm out and out shouting at the top of my lungs that VII is the best game ever and way better than any other FF. Just because I picked VII, you flipped. If I picked VIII, would I have had the same response? No way.

Well THAT'S the problem with most fans of 7, it was their first FF experience & therefore they've got a biased favor of it.

It's reasons like that is why veteran FF players HATE 7 & cannot take it's fanbase seriously...

Here are just a FEW problems with 7 that cause it to fall from being #1 with ANY respectable gamer.

Look, I like some of your points you make on VII. Hojo and Zack in particular - two excellent characters and personalities. Not so much on the Wall Market side of things - that adult humour meant VII never made out it was taking itself seriously. FFV in particular had the kind of silly humour VII did. Was a personal highlight for me, but hey, I love adult humour.

But really, Vorash, you're going nuts over nothing here. I'm not one of those nutty stereotypical VII fanboys you're thinking of, even if I am a fanboy of the game itself, yet you still can't seem to respect my opinion. And yet, I respect yours.

Sirlink said: It's not quite FF, but is anyone else here really excited for Bravely Default: Flying Fairy?

Vorash, I have no idea where to even start with your wall of text. Final Fantasy VII is a great game and from a development point of view is fascinating. They ended up with so many ideas in development that not only did we end up with VII, but VIII, Chrono Trigger, and the parasite Eve series. I only wish we could be so lucky today. VII caused a renaissance of sorts with the genre in the West and was the first Final Fantasy game for a lot of people. For that reason it's their favorite. We can sit here all day and argue whether it's the best of it's kind in a totally subjective medium of entertainment, but when all is said and done it will still be people's favorite.

I am curious now though, what do you think of VIII? because that's my favorite Final Fantasy and it's generally seen as inferior to VII nowadays.

SirLink said:
It's not quite FF, but is anyone else here really excited for Bravely Default: Flying Fairy?

I wasn't over reacting at all Azu, merely making a statement about how unreliable your view is regarding 7. It's you fav fine I can respect that, BUT my meaning in what I said is that 7 is OVER RATED & not nearly as good as people say it is. Everyone can like different things (how else do you explain some of the crap that's shown on TV despite how low brow it is?) but for some people to say (and not necessarily you Azu) that 7 is the best representative of what the Final Fantasy franchise is about & what makes is good shows they are BLINDED by their first experince & therefore are ignorant OR willingly chose to ignore the obvious DEFECTS in said product.

EVERYTHING I stated is true about FF7, & I understand people have their own "Opinion" about things...but pulling that card merely shows you've run out of steam & can't properly argue my point. Yes people can like 7, I certainly don't hate it...but it will never be the best Final Fantasy made.

Ahhh, this thread reminds me to play 'Country of Troia' once again. I think that version from the Final Fantasy IV SNES version will always be great to me. It's a piece I can't stop loving.
That bassline, the soothing flute. Hmmmm.

Haha, that's all I have to contribute to this Final Fantasy thread!

You don't half chat out of your arse, V. It's a waste of time even trying since everything you say is 'fact.'

...merely making a statement about how unreliable your view is regarding 7.

FF7 is over rated.

You have blown this way out of proportion, since I'm a guy that enjoys most of the FFs he's played just as much as the other.

In fact, I've decided. FFX is my new fave FF. By a tiny fraction. What happens now? List the reasons FFX is terrible, too? Let's say I never mentioned FFVII's name at all. This conversation wouldn't have happened. It's plain to see you've overreacted.

EVERYTHING I stated is true about FF7,

I understand people have their own "Opinion" about things...but pulling that card merely shows you've run out of steam & can't properly argue my point.

Anyway, some of those points you said are facts. How does a fact like "Cloud lacks confidence" mean it can't be ranked highly by any person? What, we aren't allowed to like a game where the main character lacks confidence now? It just sounds to me that you're saying you prefer Zack as a character over Cloud. Great. How does you liking one person over another make the game bad?

You can like a game, but 1st exp tend to be questioned as I just said since; for most people, their minds are blown & they don't take other experiences quite as seriously. THEREFORE bias "point of view" impairs their judgement. Hojo IS the true villian of FF7, yet the people I've spoken with do not realize this. Sephiroth IS a weak minded villian since all it took was 3 little words from Zack "What about you?". A stronger man would've considered this, but recounted the experiences that shaped him into the man he is today...but not Seph. He didn't care how many people he helped, how thw world LOVEF HIM as a hero, how much "good" he did for people. I don't blame him for going after Shinra & killing the pres...but he's an idiot if he thinks the ENTIRE PLANET needs to pay as well since he's NOT Jenova's son...again he made up his own answers.

And to answer your question Duggler I really love FF8 just like I hold 4,6 & 9 close to my heart. 8 had a superb soundtrack, excellent magic system (Junction>Materia) & a wonderful, believable love story that few people seemed to appreciate. I think it's one of the best, being just a few steps down from 6 since Ultimecia wasn't really shown till the end & Kefka was just too wonderfully HORRIBLE!! But really no FF villian has been able to top Kefka thus far. Few things can surpass poisoning an entire Kingdom, killing your own soldiers just to test the strength of your new toy...who happens to be the MAIN CHARACTER, as well as killing your leader to take his place, defeating the heroes who came to stop you AND rearranging the very face of the planet!!!!! Yup few things can top those...

Look I didn't mean to offend anyone here (sorry Azuardo) but it just gets a LIIIITTLE old seeing people completely ignore FF7's short comings only to keep it in such high regard when there are so many reasons that shoe it's not as good as people believe it to be. I'm looking at ALL the FFs from a critics point of view & am able to put my fanboy love aside when reviewing them...all I ask is other people please show that same level of professionalism.

Reading this page a bit, I think you need to ask yourself what your goal here is.

- Do you want to learn from new viewpoints?
- Do you want to come to a consensus on the pro and cons of certain game features?
- Or do you want to convince people they're wrong and get them to agree to your well thought out opinions on entertainment products that ultimately bear no relevance to the lives of any of us?

And then, why? What does that mean to you?

The second of the three is my reasoning, there is no new point of view I don't/can't understand. I suppose somewhere in my subconscious the third option also exists but that's not the for front of my reason, if it was I wouldn't have offered the apology I did.

*sigh* I had written up another response but I can't be fucking arsed any more. I tried with you, Vorash, I really did, but your head's so far up your own arse that nothing will ever get through to you. The -1s against you speak volumes to show I'm not alone.

Reading impressions on Theatrhythm, and it's quite clear it's one for the fans. Also, major ending spoilers in the FMVs, so sounds like it'd be wise for players to think twice about playing tracks from games they haven't played yet.

Vorash Kadan said:
The second of the three is my reasoning, there is no new point of view I don't/can't understand. I suppose somewhere in my subconscious the third option also exists but that's not the for front of my reason, if it was I wouldn't have offered the apology I did.

At least you've got a lot to learn. I just hope you're open to learn it, and manage to be honest to yourself.
The world is a big place, good luck connecting with it.

I can connect just fine...but idiocy gets tiresomr after awhile. It's difficult to take you seriously sometimes Azu, you make some comments that make sense....but other times you come across like a completely unprofessional fanboy. Like the instance where you said Dissidia improved upon Crisis Core's visuals...when it CLEARLY did not. Cutscenes with characters having Dr. Suise quality noses & blended clay hair coupled with IN GAME hand mittens with only ONE finger & thumb seperate?

No no no it is indeed hard to take you as a serious professional, even with yoyr over love of 13. Whule the story wasn't terrible it was still bogged down by a pompus showy villian & NOTHING can make up for the hold your hand, restricted movement gameplay!! If I wanted to play a movie I'd play an MGS game...& even THOSE ones allow backtracking & exploration to a better extent than 13 did.

Okay, let's calm down here. It's a videogame, a form of entertainment and something you can play to have a bit of fun in your spare time.

There's no outcome to this, apart from the wasted time you could be spending doing something more productive. Of course, it's up to you what you want to do with your time, but my recommendation is try something to take your mind off this, because it's obviously bothering you. Try a new hobby, perhaps.

There is no professionalism when it comes to gaming - people enjoy the game they like, there's not really much else to it. Sure, there's game critics/reviews, but at the end of the day, we all have are own opinions, thoughts and feelings and we're individuals.

I don't know, this whole thread seems overblown to me. I don't quite understand why there's such commotion over something so trivial. Either way, my thoughts are shared and I will get back to doing the things that make me happy.