Final Fantasy

I'm 26, the first console I remember owning is the Atari 2600. After that we had an Atari ST for years, which we used for home computing and I commandeered for gaming. I remember upgrading the RAM on that thing to a whopping 1MB so that I could play Street Fighter II on it.

Vorash, I too think you're making way too big of a deal out of your experience. You make such bold statements, many of which are entirely questionable. You seem to be up your own bottom, somewhat.

Well as I said before this is what I've observed from others & understood myself. Mayhaps I just was unlucky enough to have only been around ignorant extremests (not my friends but people at Cons & forums ect.) & the fact that I used to thunk graphics were the best part of video games & then I gained a deeper understanding of what truely matters.

Anywho as I said before I didn't mean to offend or sound pompous but I regret nothing I've stated. FF7 isn't terrible, but it's definatly not as good as people make it out to be & 6,8 as well as 9 are far better examples of FF quality. I agree with you whole heartedly SuperLink, Zack is an awesome character & I loooove Crisis Core (will be my first redownload for Vita) but Tifa's got beeewbiieesss!!!!!!

Yeah Crisis Core was fantastic, plot-wise at least, the gameplay was a little shallow but enjoyable enough to get through the good story.

I actually played and finished it before FFVII, which gave me a pretty unique outlook playing FFVII for the first time. I had all these questions, "why does Cloud think he's a SOLDIER? Why doesn't he remember Zack?" and etc.

Personally maintain that FFVIII is a wonderful example of a developer making something so complicated that it stops being fun. Sure FFVIII's got an interesting plot and a great soundtrack, but the battle system is unnecessarily complicated, it takes a long time to explain everything and even then the tutorials are so boring that I as the player just want to find out how the annoying thing works by myself.
And it's just pretty inconvenient and annoying compared to most FF battle systems - I don't see how one would choose FFVIII's system over another battle system when other systems are easier more accessible and more fun to use.

The card game in VIII is pretty dope, though!

Well allow me to explain why I prefer 6,8 & 9's battle/magic system over 7.

For Final Fantasy VI I love the Magicite set up they have because ANY character can learn EVERY magic & you don't have penalties like you suffer in 7, if anything you actually get perminent bonuses while equiping certain Espers upon level ups so if you're smart & time it right you can max out your characters pretty early. Also an FYI, if you want to make Sabin's Blitz moves even more beastly make sure you pick Magic + 1 or 2 since the game views Blitz attacks as Magic for damage....go figure.

Final Fantasy VIII's Draw & Junction system beats out Materia for Customisation & shorter time to master. Not ONLY do you have greater control of how a character grows (DIRECT stat altering control as well as level up bonuses like in 6) but it also takes less time than Mastering Materia with AP farming. Simply make sure you're spirit stat is as high as possible & you'll be drawing 9 of EVERY spell almost all of the time. Don't want to take the time to draw from enemies? Well then use Magic, Card or EVEN Item refine to do the work for you. There are SOOOOOOO many options to attain magic & stats it's not even funny!! The only draw back I feel is that characters can't hold every type of magic, but really they don't need to & you can stratigies who holds what so it's okay. Plus you can get Squall's ultimate weapon on disc 1...Lionheart FTW!!!! Also you're not limited by MP or summon restrictions.

Final Fantasy IX felt more like an oldschool FF to me which was great, sure I wasn't a fan of the chibi art style/lack of perportions (the older ones worked because that was the size) or the weird animal people like the dumb hippo running a steam shop in Alexandria but it was a great nostalia trip like seeing an old schoolmate after 12 years of no contact. I also liked the learning abilities through equipment, very satesfying for an OCD completionist like myself lol.

And there you have it.......any questions?

( Edited 16.02.2012 17:15 by Vorash Kadan )

For Final Fantasy VI I love the Magicite set up they have because ANY character can learn EVERY magic & you don't have penalties like you suffer in 7

Huh? What penalties are those?

Magic and Summon materia knock down max HP. Must be what he means.

So just use HP+ and MP+ :/ , you kind of need SOME restrictions it's what makes games interesting.
Magic users have historically been weaker so knocking down your HP when loading up on magic is kind of in line with final fantasy.
VII simply blurs the lines between classes a bit, materia sort of allows you to make somone a thief, a summoner or tank etc if you want.

That said magic and summons arn't even particularly all that useful in the game if you know how to play it, enemy skills don't affect MP/HP and you get quite alot of powerful spells that way, alot better than the standard green stuff. *shrugs*

( Edited 16.02.2012 17:58 by Mr James2t3 )

Azuardo is correct but you also lose physical attack strength with certain Materia equiped as well, which means if you want to keep Tifa as your tank she pretty much has to fight naked.....figuratively speaking unfortunatly...XD

Yes but then that takes away slots from armor James which really doesn't make up for it.

Again FF6,8 & 9 have the best magic set up thus far though I really enjoyed the sphere grid in 10!!

Vorash Kadan said:
Yes but then that takes away slots from armor James which really doesn't make up for it.

Again FF6,8 & 9 have the best magic set up thus far though I really enjoyed the sphere grid in 10!!

Of course it makes up for it, your not supposed to have EVERY single materia equipped at the same time nor do you need it. (and if you really want this there is a side-quest to do just this)
You can change as you go along, I could say FFVI limits you as you can only have one summons equipped at a time. OH NO that sucks I can't have all my summons on one guy, he can only benefit from Magic + 1 for a few level ups!
But it is really it's just a minor limit to stop you learning everything too fast and making the game super easy. It's just different.

FFVII has a very flexible system, I dunno how you could have a problem with limits.

Azuardo is correct but you also lose physical attack strength with certain Materia equiped as well, which means if you want to keep Tifa as your tank she pretty much has to fight naked.....figuratively speaking unfortunatly...XD

This dosn't even make any sense, if you are using her for a tank why would you use green materia in the first place! there is other materias better suited for this role, like HP+, Counter and Cover! and if you are really desperate to give her SOME magic, enemey skill her out the wazzoo!



( Edited 16.02.2012 20:21 by Mr James2t3 )

Compaired to what you can do with the Junction aystem in 8 Materia is very limited. Of course you can only learn from 1 Esper at a time, BUT you can learn spells quicker from different Espers allowing multiple party members to learn certain spells at the same time!! Whwn one's done learning switch the Esper out for the higher % and keep going.

Just so you don't think I'm biased or am merely hating on 7 for fanboy's sake I will point out the flaws 6 & 8 have that I don't like. For FF6 I don't like how you can only summon ONCE per battle (which makes me hope Square will go all out with the over the top summon animation to make up for that in the 3DS remake of FF6) and the limit break system first introduced in FF6 is practicly useless since you MUST be on the verge of death & it's still STILL only a chance your character will do the special attack.

For FF8 I really don't like the salary based way of earning cash, it sucks to have to run around & wait for a paycheck unless I want to sell my items. I also felt board with the total lack of Treasure Chests.....a freaking game mechani STAPLE in the Final Fantasy series....yet I believe 8 is the ONLY one to never have Treasure Chests thag contain suprise goodies!

Still even with those faults they pull ahead of 7 in terms of over all quality.

Vorash Kadan said:
Azuardo is correct but you also lose physical attack strength with certain Materia equiped as well, which means if you want to keep Tifa as your tank she pretty much has to fight naked.....figuratively speaking unfortunatly...XD

Vorash Kadan said:
Compaired to what you can do with the Junction aystem in 8 Materia is very limited. Of course you can only learn from 1 Esper at a time, BUT you can learn spells quicker from different Espers allowing multiple party members to learn certain spells at the same time!! Whwn one's done learning switch the Esper out for the higher % and keep going.

Just so you don't think I'm biased or am merely hating on 7 for fanboy's sake I will point out the flaws 6 & 8 have that I don't like. For FF6 I don't like how you can only summon ONCE per battle (which makes me hope Square will go all out with the over the top summon animation to make up for that in the 3DS remake of FF6) and the limit break system first introduced in FF6 is practicly useless since you MUST be on the verge of death & it's still STILL only a chance your character will do the special attack.

For FF8 I really don't like the salary based way of earning cash, it sucks to have to run around & wait for a paycheck unless I want to sell my items. I also felt board with the total lack of Treasure Chests.....a freaking game mechani STAPLE in the Final Fantasy series....yet I believe 8 is the ONLY one to never have Treasure Chests thag contain suprise goodies!

Still even with those faults they pull ahead of 7 in terms of over all quality.

But OH NOES I don't want to switch my summons, I want my character to benefit from Magic + 1 at all times!

Also you could just BUY a lot of materia if you were desperate for the spells, and it even creates another materia once you level it up, again though why you want to play like this is beyond me because they simply don't need all that magic. It's a different game, play it as such, don't play it like FF6 or 8.

Compared FF8 every other Final Fantasy is limited, FF8 system was almost broken in that sense, it was so easy to take advantage of it, it was ridiculous.

( Edited 16.02.2012 20:14 by Mr James2t3 )

Wow James you really are stupid...trading out Espers does NOT retrack from the PERMINANT bonuses you get, you only need to have said Esper equiped UPON LEVEL UP AS I SAID BEFORE to gain the perminent boost. Have you even played FF6 or 8? Judging from your comments I'd say you haven't, play them all the way through THEN you can say something.

Vorash Kadan said:
Wow James you really are stupid...

I never said they take off the permanent bonuses?

In FF6 certain espers are better paired with certain party members, eg Celes for instance is a strong magic user so you want to pair her up with an esper granting +1 or +2 magic when she levels up.
But if you want them to learn other abilities you obviously have to take that esper off at times to learn them so you might be stuck with an esper giving you a usless (in her case +1 strength stat or even an esper with no stat bonus) this in it self is a kind of limit on the system, thats all I was getting at.
Well unless you go into the menu after every battle to make sure to swap the esper on the verge of leveling up but this would take micromanaging to a whole new level of annoying .

And I have played 6 twice and 8 three times so yeah, honestly it's you who sounds like you haven't played VII or didn't bother learning how to play it well, I have heard many complaints about 7 (magic hammer can make the game too easy, poor translation) but yours are unique.
Never have I heard someone saying FF7 is too limiting and from the way you attempt to play it, plugging in green/summon materia in everything(this is what I did when i was 12 on my first play through on the first disk) and stripping Tifa of materia to make her play as a tank character(bizarre), sounds like someone who has no idea what there doing.





( Edited 16.02.2012 21:25 by Mr James2t3 )

You just said "OH NOES I don't want to swap out my summons, I want my character to benefit from Magic + 1 at all times!" Your comment was reeking with angry sarcasm & you were implying that you ALWAYS need to have an Esper equiped to gain benefits....which you DON'T, which is how I can tell you most likely have not played FF6 & you're statement of FF8 being too easy shows you don't know much about that one either, since the game scales enemy level to MATCH your highest leveled character. So if you're lazy & you don't level EVERYONE equally thrn you're seriously screwed even with good junctions. Calm yourself down, actually EXPERIENCE the games I'm talking about, then you cam say something.

It's very easy to google/wiki some info then BS your way through a forum discussion, but experience can never be faked & is the only way to catch people who talk big but can't back it up.

If you've actually played it them you'd never have made such a baseless comment about espers needing to be equiped all the time. If you're smart you PLAN YOUR PARTY so you're learning magic with characters of different stat focuses so you're not fighting over them duh. You're argument with Celes is null & void pal, I've proven your wrong & provided a way around that.

Mod edit: Double post. Edited together.

( Edited 16.02.2012 22:38 by Azuardo )

FF8 is broken though. Yeah, the enemies level with you, but the Junction system can be abused from the beginning of the game, letting you become a god and walk over everything in sight.

I guess, never noticed though since I always got Lionheart asap & always felt that was why I was rapeing everything in site. Also thanks Azuardo, sorry for the double post I've been having to use my phone since most of the PCs on campus are taken. Is there anyway to allow access to full site features while viewing it on mobile so I can atleast edit my responces or quote someone?

Vorash Kadan said:
You just said "OH NOES I don't want to swap out my summons, I want my character to benefit from Magic + 1 at all times!" Your comment was reeking with angry sarcasm & you were implying that you ALWAYS need to have an Esper equiped to gain benefits....which you DON'T, which is how I can tell you most likely have not played FF6 & you're statement of FF8 being too easy shows you don't know much about that one either, since the game scales enemy level to MATCH your highest leveled character. So if you're lazy & you don't level EVERYONE equally thrn you're seriously screwed even with good junctions. Calm yourself down, actually EXPERIENCE the games I'm talking about, then you cam say something.

It's very easy to google/wiki some info then BS your way through a forum discussion, but experience can never be faked & is the only way to catch people who talk big but can't back it up.

If you've actually played it them you'd never have made such a baseless comment about espers needing to be equiped all the time. If you're smart you PLAN YOUR PARTY so you're learning magic with characters of different stat focuses so you're not fighting over them duh. You're argument with Celes is null & void pal, I've proven your wrong & provided a way around that.

Mod edit: Double post. Edited together.

Would you like me to take pictures of the save files?

Christ almighty.
Right say I want Terra to have +2 magic on level up, I have her equipped with Valigarmanda, right? with me so far?
Now say I want her to learn Meteor, I equip her with the Odin Esper. Now during that time she will be getting a Speed +1 stat (at level up) and not a magic stat, unless like I said you switch the espers when on the verge of leveling up. You can't gain both at the same time and you can't have multiple espers on the same person.

All I was trying to say was that it was just TYPE of limitation in that you can't have multible espers attatched. I'm not saying it's bad, it works because the game is designed around the limitation and as you say you plan ahead.

So why can't you plan ahead in FFVII? Whats so limiting in it that you can't plan ahead?

( Edited 17.02.2012 00:30 by Mr James2t3 )

Totally agree with FFVIII being broken as hell. If you know what to do, you can become so ridiculously overpowered in almost no time at all and that at the very beginning of the game too. Totally beats any level grinding you could do in many other FF games in terms of increase in power. Having played III, IV, VII, VIII, IX and XIII so far, I'd say that FFVIII has my least favourite battle system out of the bunch just because of the Junctions. Too much micromanagement even for my taste (especially when the game sometimes decides to reset your Junction setup without a warning) and the actual Magic spells/GF Summons aren't really all that useful once you have good Junctions on your characters and abuse Limit Breaks. Limit Breaks were really cool (especially Lionheart), though I still prefer FFVII's Limit Break system. If that one would let you save your Limit Breaks for later and not replace the Attack command, it would be perfect.

Vorash Kadan said:
I guess, never noticed though since I always got Lionheart asap & always felt that was why I was rapeing everything in site. Also thanks Azuardo, sorry for the double post I've been having to use my phone since most of the PCs on campus are taken. Is there anyway to allow access to full site features while viewing it on mobile so I can atleast edit my responces or quote someone?

SirLink said:
If that one would let you save your Limit Breaks for later and not replace the Attack command, it would be perfect.

Yeah I liked how 7 could allow you to save them, but yeah a mix of 7&8 limit breaks where you can build them up, not have to be on deaths door, save them & use them when you need to instead of forcing you to defend or use up MP would be ideal.

Well I understand what you mean now that you've refrased it James, but yeah it's not that tough to save every 5 battles when you get close then swap out right before lvl up. The reason for not equiping more than one Esper is because you learn multiple magic per Esper, with FF7 only equiped Materia get AP so it takes longer.

As for not planing ahead in 7 I never suggested anything for or against that fact. If you want to know SPECIFICALLY what sucks about Materia is again the slot system they use & it takes far too long & requires more effort than I care to give when getting the multi purpose Materia. It's just a headache for ones like Mastering all types of a certain color or multi hit Materia.

Azuardo said:
This is why I think FFX has probably the best limit break system, called Overdrives. Not only can you keep your Overdrive on standby at all times, you can learn lots of different ways to increase your bar, such as: taking a hit from an enemy; attacking an enemy; getting a turn; healing an ally; allies taking damage. Can't really fault it tbh, and is probably the upgraded version of FFVII's limits.

Pretty much. When I think long and hard about it, I think X has probably the best battle system in terms of turn-based fighting. The option to switch in and out any ally or change equipment mid-battle is brilliant. And I love the Conditional Turn-Based system (CTB), which essentially lets you take as long as you want on your moves, since it actually is a proper turn-based system, adding a bigger element of strategy to boss battles. You get to see the next 15-20 order of turns so you can see if you get an ally turn before the enemy, or see how Haste will change the order up, etc.