More Sonic SH*T

Bump. Just to add a bit more info/discussion value:

So far, no other reviews have been lower than 6. GameDaily gave it 7 (they gave both Unleashed and Secret Rings 5) One other site has reviewed it but the name escapes me, they gave it 6.

Those who don\'t want unlockable spoilers, don\'t watch this vid, but for those looking for more reason to get the game, this might look nice to you:

EDIT: By the way, unlike Secret Rings, you STOP when you let go of the control stick. It\'s still on a set path, but you\'re no longer running almost uncontrollably.

EDIT2: Another

Honestly doesn\'t look as bad as IGN say, gameplay wise.

( Edited 07.03.2009 22:47 by SuperLink )

SuperLink said:
Honestly doesn't look as bad as IGN say, gameplay wise.

looks better than sonic and the secret rings to me, I'll see what the reviews say but I haven't enjoyed a 3D sonic since adventure 2 battle.
Artmonkey, please stop making me laugh when its a saturday night and I have 1 star left....

dartmonkey said:

SuperLink said:
Honestly doesn't look as bad as IGN say, gameplay wise.

They should put that on the box.

The PR folks tried to fit some of SL's stuff on there, but the box would've had to have been extended to A3 size. Apparently A4 was the maximum.

It\'d do them a favour if it was put on the box. IGN have been getting away with half-assery for too long now. If I\'m the only C3 member who\'s even going to try defending Sonic, I\'ll do it with determination dammit!

Now that more positive opinions have come through, I have to say I\'m really not bothered about IGN\'s score anymore, I\'m only bothered by people who blindly follow everything IGN says without trying the games for themselves.

Person #1: Hey, have you tried this game yet? I\'m finding it really fun
Person #2: LOL! Haven\'t you read IGN\'s review yet? It\'s SHIT!\"
Person #1: *Butt of the gaming community for no good reason* ;-;

Right now I\'m more bothered about the art thief who won first place in the fanart competition.



( Edited 08.03.2009 12:36 by SuperLink )

SuperLink said:
It'd do them a favour if it was put on the box. IGN have been getting away with half-assery for too long now.

Now that more positive opinions have come through, I have to say I'm really not bothered about IGN's score anymore, I'm only bothered by people who blindly follow everything IGN says without trying the games for themselves.

Person #1: Hey, have you tried this game yet? I'm finding it really fun
Person #2: LOL! Haven't you read IGN's review yet? It's SHIT!"
Person #1: *Butt of the gaming community for no good reason* ;-;

Right now I'm more bothered about the art thief who won first place in the fanart competition.

art thief :-x what this what happen? nothing pisses me off like a art thief :-x i know 3 that take my pics and they posted it as they own work :-x

I\'m not sure if I have all the facts right, so I\'ll let TSSZ do the talking for me.

Unfortunately Black Knight is already out, so there really is nothing SEGA can do about it, except for apologise, which I assume is what they\'ll do. Unlike most developers, they\'re very in touch with their community.

EDIT: Someone\'s negarepped half of my posts. Does C3 really hate Sonic that much? I feel like I\'m talking to a brick wall here.

( Edited 08.03.2009 12:43 by SuperLink )

Superlink you could stand up for Sonic all day but the fact is he still only scrapes average.

Unlike most developers, they're very in touch with their community.

I didn\'t word that correctly. I realise how stupid that sounds. SEGA of Europe and America at least, are constantly accepting interviews with the fan community, and often personally reply to emails unlike the more automated responses from most devs. They send representatives to Summer of Sonic (a fan organised event) and quite a few people from SoE are members on Sonic Stadium.

Don\'t think I\'m trying to defend SEGA of Japan or Sonic Team, they\'re incredibly isolated in comparison.

Birdo Is A Tranny said:
Superlink you could stand up for Sonic all day but the fact is he still only scrapes average.

It's not that SL. I neg-mushroomed your "It'd do them a favour if it was put on the box" post because you seemed oblivious to the hilarity of your comment. Like the point of my post had gone completely over your head. Does anyone really give a shit what IGN (in isolation) think? I certainly don't, but you can't argue that they're a lone voice. To me it just seems like they're far less willing to put up with mediocrity for Sonic.

I think the general consensus on C3 is that Sonic deserves better than the production line of averageness that's pushed out the door every 12 months. He deserves Galaxy-grade gaming. I'd wait 3 years for that. It's achievable - Nintendo have proved it. But thanks to 'devotees' (like yourself), unexeptional games are such money-spinners that he'll never be in a game of Galaxy's quality. Voting with your wallet is the only way to make them listen, and it's partly your fault that we're being served up these bland unremarkable titles time and again.

I think that's why you're getting generally negative feedback. It's nothing personal, but Sonic should be up there in Mario-quality games, and you're continually advocating these pedestrian titles as worthy of the character. To me they're simply not good enough.

I enjoyed Shadow the Hedgehog so I'll most likely enjoy this too.

The combat looks slower than I thought it would in a few vids but I don't mind really. Sonic never crashed through enemies at light speed in the original games so I see no reason for him to here.

I defo agree with Sega's Western offices being close with their fans and press members with direct feedback, community blogs and fan submissions. We have a decent relationship with Sega UK as well methinks.

I too have a great love for all things Sonic; heck I wear me Sonic t-shirts at most opportunities lol, but I still think there's a lot of improvement needed - mainly in stage design and enemy design, the latter more so.

I'm really getting a little peeved with these rubbish enemy designs and lack of variety in both the 2D and 3D games in the last 5/6 years. They have about 10 or less enemies used in all the levels, over and over - there really needs to be more specific enemies and gameplay elements for different levels - e.g. the 3/4 flying robot chains and wall jumps in Unleashed where a little boring when you'd have the same patterns in all levels. Not looking for completely classic badnick designs, but at least more variety between levels.

Don't get me started on how boring boss battles have been..

I reckon they could really be onto a winner if they do a Sonic that's like New! Mario Bros - with good speed, variety and a handful of characters to choose from.

dartmonkey said:
It\'s not that SL. I neg-mushroomed your \"It\'d do them a favour if it was put on the box\" post because you seemed oblivious to the hilarity of your comment. Like the point of my post had gone completely over your head. Does anyone really give a shit what IGN (in isolation) think? I certainly don\'t, but you can\'t argue that they\'re a lone voice. To me it just seems like they\'re far less willing to put up with mediocrity for Sonic.

I think the general consensus on C3 is that Sonic deserves better than the production line of averageness that\'s pushed out the door every 12 months. He deserves Galaxy-grade gaming. I\'d wait 3 years for that. It\'s achievable - Nintendo have proved it.

But thanks to \'devotees\' (like yourself), unexeptional games are such money-spinners that he\'ll never be in a game of Galaxy\'s quality. Voting with your wallet is the only way to make them listen, and it\'s partly your fault that we\'re being served up these bland unremarkable titles time and again.

On the buying thing, I don\'t by bad Sonic games, heck I usually don\'t even buy the mediocre ones. I know someone at SEGA so I get a few of them free, and old ones I don\'t have yet I buy 2nd hand. The only Sonic game I\'ve actually bought in the last few years is Sonic Unleashed, why? Because it was great, and even though around half of it is tedious dartboard induced gameplay, it\'s an indication of the kind of effort that should go into Sonic games. The light heartedness, the simple story, the huge array of colours, it\'s definitely the right direction, and the gameplay has very little flaws for the first time in the history of 3D Sonic. How can anyone not be optimistic for Sonic after that?

I think that\'s why you\'re getting generally negative feedback. It\'s nothing personal, but Sonic should be up there in Mario-quality games, and you\'re continually advocating these pedestrian titles as worthy of the character. To me they\'re simply not good enough.

EDIT @ jb: The flying enemies in Unleashed have been the same bat enemies that have been in the series since Sonic Adventure and Sonic Advance. The rhinobot and crabmeat also returned as some of the main enemies in Sonic 2006, regardless of how crappy the game was. It\'s not that I like the whole \"mech\" robots, but ST\'s reasoning for using them are to create a canon variety of the SWATbots from the old cartoons.

( Edited 08.03.2009 14:20 by SuperLink )

Funny thing is. No matter what review site gives it a low score, the fans will instantly start bashing them for being wrong, ignorant and just not liking sonic.

I just finished reading the IGN review, and while it seems a little harsh, it\'s not a terrible one sides review. they do give good points. And reasons why the damn thing got a low review. Really sonic NEEDS to get a kick in the ass so they constantly churn out games like or better than unleashed.

he graphics engine is dazzling at points, easily outputting detailed, varied environments blanketed in effects. As Sonic blazes through mountainous terrain, you\'ll be able to see individual blades of grass swaying in the wind. As he runs across rocky, magma-filled caves, a heat distortion effect will warp the screen. When he clashes swords with King Arthur, the screen will ignite in an awesome explosion of particle sparks. It\'s a good looking game through and through, even if the framerate occasionally dips in high-action sequences. The biggest presentational (and mechanical, if you want to lump it into gameplay) flaw is the camera, which proves downright obtrusive at points, shooting Sonic\'s movements behind foreground barriers -- a huge frustration.

Nothing i can see there that wouldn\'t be bitched at in a game? If i remember rightly Too Human had bad comments about its camera aswell?

But unfortunately for SEGA there is the second, integral component to consider: gameplay. And it\'s here where Black Knight is defeated, slashed through its corrupted heart time and time again. Imagine the trademark intense speed, loop-de-loops, corkscrews, jumps and pinball mechanics that have helped define the Sonic name over the years. Good. Now throw all of that tried-and-true stuff out the window, slow down the action to a relative crawl, give the blue hedgehog a big sword, and throw enemy after enemy in his path.

once again, without sounding like an IGN fanboy (Which.. im really, really not.) that seems like points well met? I think someone said in this thread that enemies slowing you down ruins the experience in some way. So why is it different when IGN say it?

Just incase people didnt read the review and just looked at the linked top scores. They didnt just give it a 3.9 all over.

8.5 Presentation
Slick interface, crisp cut-scenes, online trading system and leader boards. In-game graphics look good. Dialog is too campy.

8.5 Graphics
Really pretty. Varied level designs come to life with good art and great effects

7.5 Sound
There\'s a lot of voice work and music and a good chunk of it is over-the-top campy.

3.0 Gameplay
Possibly designed by monkeys. Everything you\'ve ever liked about Sonic games -- speed, great level designs -- is gone. Instead, you will crawl through stages and fight enemy after enemy, with waggle.

(Which may i add, are 2 things people in this thread said sonic games needed, even if a little slowing down.)

3.0 Lasting Appeal
You can beat the primary single-player mode in a few hours and then you\'ll unlock some extra playable characters. But there\'s no point in going back unless you like torturing yourself.

3.9
Bad OVERALL
(out of 10 / not an average)

Really, im not gunna judge it till ive played it that i innevitably will, but from that it doesn\'t really bash it for no reasons, maybe a tad drastic on its scoring due to its downsides but nothing more then other big games get if they show big errors.

Also, you can\'t compare the whole \'it got lower than sonic 2006\' because its being compared to unleashed, and 2006 was released years ago. if it was released now after unleashed it would get phenomenally lower than this.

Ontop of that, i just checked the sonic unleashed global scores. How is ign in the wrong on that? They gave it a 7, that\'s higher than alot of other reviewers.. including C3. And while they do seem to be giving the lower scores on the black knight, maybe they genuinely disliked the points above? Which do seem like they\'ve taken a step back from unleashed

( Edited 08.03.2009 15:23 by TaoFire )

EDIT @ jb: The flying enemies in Unleashed have been the same bat enemies that have been in the series since Sonic Adventure and Sonic Advance. The rhinobot and crabmeat also returned as some of the main enemies in Sonic 2006, regardless of how crappy the game was. It's not that I like the whole "mech" robots, but ST's reasoning for using them are to create a canon variety of the SWATbots from the old cartoons.

True that, I get the reasoning but I'm just tired of these enemies just floating there and you're ending up hitting A, A, A, A - same with the mechs - they either stand and fire teeny little laser guns at you or march up and down lol

Then again for a 3D game the homing attack patterns are useful, but I reckon it needs a little more variety.

When I say Unleashed, I mean the 360 version which is better than the Wii version (more daytime stages, what else needs to be said?) making it even more confusing.

I\'ve read the review myself, but it\'s the score that I find unreasonable, especially since it\'s basically Secret Rings, but better in almost every way. The review itself doesn\'t actually seem as harsh as the score, so what\'s the score for?

TaoFire said:
Funny thing is. No matter what review site gives it a low score, the fans will instantly start bashing them for being wrong, ignorant and just not liking sonic.

Remember Gamespot\'s Unleashed score? It was even lower than this, but it didn\'t get as badly flamed as IGN\'s because the review was actually written better in comparison. IGN have insulted Sonic fans (\"only fanboys will like this\" is an insult) quite a few times like that since Unleashed, it\'s plain unprofessional.

EDIT: By the way, another log to the \"Classic Sonic\" fire. When was Sonic Advance 3 released? 2004. Sonic Advance is a great little series. It\'s seriously underrecognised, and unlike Sonic Rush, the boosting is all in moderation. Other than that, feel wise, it couldn\'t be more like classic Sonic. Not only that, but the only \"new\" character in the series is Cream (who after being in Advance went on to be brutally slaughtered in the eyes of many by Sonic X and Sonic Heroes).

Badniks? Check. Themed worlds? Check. Character specific abilities? Check. Platforming? Check. What doesn\'t Sonic Advance have? Classic Sonic fans who havn\'t already, please check them out. They may not be up to the standards of Sonic 2 or 3, but they\'re very good in their own right, and they show that there\'s a large part of the Sonic franchise that mostly hasn\'t gone at all!

EDIT @ jb:
The homing attack is a good idea for the 3D games generally, otherwise aiming for bad guys taking momentum into mind is pretty hard (I\'ve tried playing 3D games without pressing A twice... it\'s pretty hard, remember Sonic 3D?). A large part of it is timing, which is emphasised in Secret Rings, and Unleashed to a small extent.

( Edited 08.03.2009 15:37 by SuperLink )

I'm playing sonic advance 2 on the TV via Wii homebrew, it's pretty good I quite like the lava level so far.

Mario_0 said:
I\'m playing sonic advance 2 on the TV via Wii homebrew, it\'s pretty good I quite like the lava level so far.

I\'d forgotten how great the sprite animation was too. Hard to notice when I played it on the GB Player, but it looks much better on the GBA.

EDIT: One of my main complaints about Rush actually. If they make Rush 3 I hope it\'s not just Sonic and Blaze again. I was expecting Tails and Marine to be playable in Rush 2.

( Edited 08.03.2009 19:19 by SuperLink )

they need to drop everything they done and start all over

and take it back to sonic 3 same gameplay as the old one No RAILS

and get a good art team in and think about sonic world and give him his own world with a style of it own

and put the story back to eggman trying to make all the cute rabbits into robots

Jump_button said:
and take it back to sonic advance 3 same gameplay as the old one No RAILS

and get a good art team in and think about sonic world and give him his own world with a style of it own

and put the story back to eggman trying to make all the cute rabbits into robots

SuperLink said:

Jump_button said:
and take it back to sonic advance 3 same gameplay as the old one No RAILS

Because everyone loves the same gameplay over and over again right? Oh, also, fixed, 'cos you know, Sonic Advance 3 may as well be Sonic 6.

and get a good art team in and think about sonic world and give him his own world with a style of it own

Don't worry, half of the Sonic games since Sonic 3D look hardly anything like Earth locations. (Sonic Heroes, half of Shadow, every 2D Sonic)

and put the story back to eggman trying to make all the cute rabbits into robots

Sonic Advance series isn't THAT old.

Iam talking about the console games

there so much more style in the old game and it make me sick they dont use it

look at this what do you think

now this

When I see the first I think \"Wow this stage has been whored out beyond belief\"

When I see the second I think Sonic in Greece.

Seriously, for a stage that doesn\'t really represent current Sonic, GHZ is possible the most whored stage in gaming history. The theme, an inspired zone, or the zone itself is in every other Sonic game. Unlike Mushroom Kingdom, a whole world, GHZ is a single zone.

( Edited 08.03.2009 20:55 by SuperLink )

im not saying copy it im saying the style

Sonic unleashed have some of the better seting for a new sonic game but look at sonic 06 and all the others 3d sonic's games

what im saying is they need to start new

Right. 3D games with Sonic styled zones

Adventure
Adventure 2
Heroes
Shadow

That's a good amount of them. Noone's defending Sonic 2006, believe me.

Sonic Chronicles and Sonic Rush 2 and Rivals 2 have classic looking zones, and they're very recent. What's the problem?

the problem is they not doing it as far as i want it to be

one day i hope they come a time when fan say will the next sonic game be better then the last and not i hope it cant be as bad as the last one