More Sonic SH*T

No wonder IGNorance gave it a 3.9

For fuck's sake!

@jorge, That\'s why I talked about sonic adventure, I\'m not deniying that Rush is a little bit too fast (though once your used to it, it\'s completely fine) but adventure is what the levels should be like, levels that are brilliant, a few fiddly bits to get past and then the boosts can be courtesy of the speed up ramps on the floor or something. I\'m not denying that unleshed has good daytime stages, but they break up the whole flow of the game with the wherehog making it a chore to go through before you can get to the good levels.
Adventures controls where half decent, but I completly agree with you, the amount of times I fell off or It didnt recognise a jump in time was rediculous.

Ill make my point again.
TAKE DOWN THE DARTBOARD.
They simply need to stop messing around and return to \'true\' sonic like they did with they did with adventure and half of unleashed

( Edited 04.03.2009 19:16 by Echoes221 )

I like the idea of the werehog, I just hate the gameplay. As far as ideas go, it\'s a lot better than Shadow with guns or Sonic with sword. I mean it\'s actually an idea based on SONIC himself.

Infact, after everyone complained about all the characters, a stupendous amount of people aren\'t noticing that we have recently had 2 Sonic games where, for the first time since Sonic 1, Sonic is actually the ONLY playable character. Instead of commending it, people pretend they never whined about it in the first place. When people finally get what they want, they won\'t even awknowledge it, like people aren\'t awknowledging what Sonic Unleashed\'s \"proper\" gameplay has done for the series.

Sonic Unleashed\'s story only had Tails and Amy, the first 2 Sonic characters (other than Sonic) ever made! There\'s also Chip but he\'ll never be in another Sonic game ever again. Except for maybe Mario & Sonic, for party reasons and party reasons alone.

( Edited 04.03.2009 19:21 by SuperLink )

The only character I liked in adventure 2 battle other than sonic was metal sonic for multyplayer purposes. I thought shadow was half decent too.
But, Sonic aTSR, felt kinda ropey and unfinished, I really didn't like the whole leveling up idea either, it works in some games, but not sonic.

Maybe Sonic team Should just leave Sonic the way he is and change the players view of him? I would like to see something like \"Sonic vision\". Have Sonic move at blazing high speeds, but give the player the ability to slow down time to dodge incoming obstacles. Or has that been done before Sonic(last sonic I played was Sonic Advance 2)? If so link it to me so I can see how they messed that up I also wouldn\'t mind having an AI controlled Tails follow me about again either

And whats all this about Sonic being either about Speed or Level design. It\'s clearly both, You can have this great level design, but a sluggish moving platform hoping hedgehog that shows you\'ve completely missed the point of the originals. And If you focus just purely on speed you get way to much of an on-rails feeling. That\'s why IMO SlowMo may actually save Sonic if done in the right fashion. You would be able to slow down the gameplay without actually slowing down the character. Besides I think it\'s the one poplar gimmick of video games that Sonic team hasn\'t tried to whore

EDIT: I would really love to see Sonic pull a chili dog out of nowhere(his ass) all cartoon style if he\'s in his neutral position to long.

( Edited 04.03.2009 19:58 by J Tangle )

J Tangle said:

And whats all this about Sonic being either about Speed or Level design. It's clearly both, You can have this great level design, but a sluggish moving platform hoping hedgehog that shows you've completely missed the point of the originals. And If you focus just purely on speed you get way to much of an on-rails feeling. That's why IMO SlowMo may actually save Sonic if done in the right fashion. You would be able to slow down the gameplay without actually slowing down the character. Besides I think it's the one poplar gimmick of video games that Sonic team hasn't tried to whore

How do the 2D games have \'brilliant flow\'? You constantly fling yourself down pits inexplicably or have to wait for little switches to be pressed or for some blocks to move or whatever. It adds to the gameplay nicely at times, but it breaks up the flow horribly.
For it to have brilliant flow, it should keep moving nicely so long as you play well. Many obstacles in Sonic just force you to a stand-still and wait for something to happen.

( Edited 04.03.2009 20:01 by Ikana )

Infact, after everyone complained about all the characters, a stupendous amount of people aren\'t noticing that we have recently had 2 Sonic games where, for the first time since Sonic 1, Sonic is actually the ONLY playable character. Instead of commending it, people pretend they never whined about it in the first place. When people finally get what they want, they won\'t even awknowledge it, like people aren\'t awknowledging what Sonic Unleashed\'s \"proper\" gameplay has done for the series.

Uh, people do - I\'m pretty sure people who have complained about recent Sonics have had good things to say about the Daytime aspects of unleashed.

Although Unleashed has some good points in the Daytime, and some surprisingly good platforming sections at night, it still is a little too fast - slow sonic down with a litte precision areas and vary up levels with different enemies instead of chains of flying enemies and stupid no-brain mechs who walk up and down.

People complain about the characters, and Sega reacts by removing the extras and the core. IMO they really should keep at least Tails and Knuckles, with additional characters as extras. The problem I see with the newer ones is the design and purpose really - Silver, Jet etc don\'t really contribute much.

( Edited 04.03.2009 20:04 by jb )

Sonic Storybook series uses a slow mo function, but unfortunately it\'s a bit tedious.

I can\'t find a video right now (mainly because I can\'t remember what it\'s called)

Also, Sonic Advance 3 has AI controlled Tails... or AI controlled anyone. The AI is pretty shit but it\'s good fun in CoOp.

Right now I really want Sonic Rush 3 to be announced. Hopefully Tails will be playable this time, as cool as Blaze is, just Sonic and Blaze could get a little dull, especially with the huge cast of the Advance games.

EDIT: On the plus side, Black Knight is the first ever 3D title to have optional playable characters, like in the 2D Sonic games. We know of 4, but there may be 6 or more! Although I hate the guts of 2 of them...

Oh and JTangle may not know this yet, but tha last point is possible since Chili Dogs are finally canon, and probably due to the fanbase.

( Edited 04.03.2009 20:06 by SuperLink )

Yeah, some of the newer characters are actually pretty good; especially Cream and Blaze. Even Rouge is alright. And Shadow is growing on me a little bit now. But indeed, the likes of Silver and Jet are pointless.

@ SL

So that Famitsu score was for the 360 version was it, well it may have scored a touch lower on the 8s on Wii, but it still remains dodgy.

Well then, a Famitsu score of 26/40|6.5, says it all really. For them to give it such a low score speaks volumes on how bad this game is. This for me is confirmation that this game is below average. Sonic fans can still choose to a disregard this one IGN score if they want, but they wont be able to when other disparaging reviews roll in.

Echoes221 said:
Slow mo was done in sonic and the secret rings, but only on a few occasions to dodge traps and stuff. You can\'t have a sonic game thats pure speed it just doesn\'t work. Thats why the 2D ones work well, brilliant flow and speed.

That sounds ok, but I think they should go back to that and flush it out more. SlowMo shouldn\'t only be used for traps, they could have used it for alternate paths or even have sonic do special moves we can\'t see and/or complete unless your in SlowMo. What I\'m trying to say is I think SlowMo should be used for accuracy, it should be the reticle to the bullet that Sonic is.

I wouldn\'t say the originals flow were brilliant, but they do show you the basic elements of what makes Sonic fun.

EDIT:

SuperLink said:
Sonic Storybook series uses a slow mo function, but unfortunately it\'s a bit tedious.

I can\'t find a video right now (mainly because I can\'t remember what it\'s called)

Also, Sonic Advance 3 has AI controlled Tails... or AI controlled anyone. The AI is pretty shit but it\'s good fun in CoOp.

Oh and JTangle may not know this yet, but tha last point is possible since Chili Dogs are finally canon, and probably due to the fanbase.

Yeah I remember seeing the chili Dog in one of the trailers, but I\'m not sure if that was for health, from an NPC, or if he actually does it when left in neutral

Can you explain how the Slowmo was tedious?

Didn\'t Know advance 3 used AI characters I may have to find that now, But I really want Home Console game to use them again. Especially if it\'s the classic Tails hovering behind and if you happen to leave him in the dust he magically floats down from the heavens

( Edited 04.03.2009 20:46 by J Tangle )

I agree with jb

Don\'t forget Gamma or Emerl. Manly tears.

Shade is also pretty awesome, but I\'m pretty sure BioWare invented her, and they also came up with a pretty awesome story.

By the way, I think I may be able to understand how Black Knight got a bad review. I\'ve been playing Secret Rings again, and though I still enjoy it, it\'s not aged so well when there\'s a game like Unleashed to play too. The controls are awkward, very awkward, and I doubt they fixed them for Black Knight.

That said, I\'m not going to lie to myself, I did enjoy myself playing Secret Rings today, and I\'m sure I\'ll like Black Knight, unless it manages to be much worse somehow.

@ LS
Sonic fans have learnt to ignore some reviews and decide for themselves whether the game is bad or not. Mostly the community decision is unanimous, and I have more faith in those decisions than in some reviewers, especially when one of those reviewers was Hilary of IGN. Also, Famitsu speaking volumes? Please, they\'ve been so wrong about some games it\'s not funny.

When most of the internet who\'ve actually played Sonic Unleashed goes against the \"professionals\" saying it\'s worse than Sonic 2006, I think I\'ll take the side of the internet thanks.

EDIT @ Jtang:

In Sonic Unleashed, Chili Dogs are just one of the many foods you get, and they\'re the basis of the time trial and survival missions. Win a time trial and get a special brand of Chili Dog!

It\'s hard to explain how the Slo-Mo was tedious, but it was maybe TOO slow, and I hardly ever use it.

I think Tails (or other characters) fly/come back to you in SA3, but you might need to hold R to get them back. Tails flies back in Sonic Advance 1 though.

And in Shadow the Hedgehog, losing your AI controlled friend means they just FALL next to you. Oh the advancedness!

( Edited 04.03.2009 20:52 by SuperLink )

Ikana said:
How do the 2D games have 'brilliant flow'? You constantly fling yourself down pits inexplicably or have to wait for little switches to be pressed or for some blocks to move or whatever. It adds to the gameplay nicely at times, but it breaks up the flow horribly.
For it to have brilliant flow, it should keep moving nicely so long as you play well. Many obstacles in Sonic just force you to a stand-still and wait for something to happen.

The Sonic games I've played aren't even particularly fast anyway. I suppose it's fast for a platformer, but it's hardly F-Zero, is it?

This entire thread has beenand will be pointless until more reviews come in, so we can actually compare.

Actually it's been a good vessel for my rants since a lot of forum regulars probably didn't read my pretty awesome blog rant.

I'm going to lol so hard if this is true;

IGN only played half of the actual game.

What? The credits already? I just defeated King Arthur. Something's up. I don't have control of the other three yet, and my Knighthood level is still low. NP said there was a plot twist after the credits.

OMG!! Major plot twist!! I've been playing just 3-4 hours so...... IGN stopped at the credits!! That's the only explanation!! (That, and it's obvious they REALLY hate Sonic.)HAHA! Man, they're pathetic! I don't even think this is the halfway point.

Delirious from what? IGN said the game was only about 3-4 hours long. That's where the credits come in, but the game is no where close to finished. They were wrong and just finished up as quickly as possible. Hell, they probably only played the preview build as they even said Sega did not send them a review copy. How could they have the review up on it's shipping day? They'd have to be very lucky to find a copy on shipping day. Then, they'd only have a few hours to review it.

Face it, they barely got through half the game or less, and slapped on a score.

P.S. I'm now I'm control of the other three knights. Also, your weapon can now be crafted.

I'm going to re-read their review and see if they mention being in control of the other knights, or any of this other new stuff.

Proof.

"You can beat the primary single-player mode in a few hours and then you'll unlock some extra playable characters. But there's no point in going back unless you like torturing yourself."

Wrong. You do not "beat" the game, then unlock the characters. The game gives off a false ending with credits, then the major plot twist happens and the game continues with the ability to play as the other knights. The story is still going on. Did Matt actually think that little bit was the ending?!

If this is true, and Matt Cassassassmaas-bleh only played half of the game, I'm instantly dismissing this review. Not for obvious journalistic-integrity reasons, but if Black Knight is anything like Secret Rings, it'll start off dull and boring and pick up enormously a few hours in.

Gee, Wii Music and now this? IGN are on a roll.

I don't see that being true, I just don't see the plot-twist thing happening in a Sonic game. If it's true, kudos to ST because I love stuff like that.

But Matt did say what he played was a chore didn't he? I don't think he complained about the length at all, just the game design and gameplay. Unless it gets better towards the "end" then I doubt he'd change his opinion on it.

Have you listened to the latest NVC yet SL?. I think you should before criticizing IGN's review as ignorant.

Download :

http://uk.wii.ign.com/articles/959/959384p1.html

Nintendo Voice Chat podcast

Maybe I will listen to it (I'd rather read a summary) but even the Sonic community has very mixed views on the game; and being a Sonic fan myself, their views mean far more to me than the same website that gave Sonic Unleashed that ridiculous score, and an awful piece of writing.

The outright offense to Sonic fans on the article page is enough to tell me how little respect IGNorant have for the Sonic series.

just see this i think i see it b4 but 4got all about it

happy it never got made?

( Edited 06.03.2009 14:29 by Jump_button )

Yeah I saw that on Sonic Stadium last night during a "New Sonic is like SatAM (which is a bad thing now apparantly)" debate.

Nice graphics and all, but it looked boring. I never really like SatAM, mainly because all the main characters are such Mary-Sues.

By the way, here's a little something that even "classic fans" will probably like, a list of a few of the tidbits in Sonic Unleashed that link to older titles.

- No sign of any characters other than Tails or Amy (the first 2 Sonic characters ever made)
- Return of the Tornado 1, Sonic's classic Biplane that Tails souped up (and then abandoned) in SADX
- Character development for good ol' Eggman, we see his base behind the scenes, and to almost confirm the musings of Sonic fans over the years, Eggman admits to making progress possible to Sonic on purpose, because he likes the challenge/fun of it. I mean he's got an IQ of 300, but there always seems to be a platform or two that allow Sonic to get right into his base. A bit of an inside joke I guess
- Eggman Robotnik Land is finally realised, Eggman has failed to build it in almost every single Sonic title up until now.
- Empire City has billboards with phrases and tributes to older Sonic titles
- Chili Dogs are finally Sonic's favourite food in canon, probably all thanks to the popularity of the old cartoons and comics.

Just thought I'd share that for people who havn't given Unleashed much time yet.

what i feel is wrong with sonic

NO NEW CHARACTERS with the new bad gameplay that come with it

Sonic back on his world not ours

SLOW HIM DOWN and to have a walking speed that dont look like you moon walking

Better camera

Cut down on the rails alot

what happen to the old spining when you pick up speed? (oops sleep wtf)

NO MORE WHOOOO YEAHHHH\'s

( Edited 06.03.2009 15:27 by Jump_button )

Jump_button said:
NO NEW CHARACTERS with the new bad gameplay that come with it

Sonic back on his world not ours

SLOW HIM DOWN and to have a walking speed that dont look like you moon walking

Better camera

what happen to the old spining when you pick up sleep?

NO MORE WHOOOO YEAHHHH's