Microsoft plan massive online experiences for the future, 100s of players online simultaniouly- Project Donny Brook!

Linkyshinks [LS] said:
I am not talking about those that take games too seriously I am taking about homophobic, rascist, and sexist people that abuse others with any reason what so ever. Do you even have a XBL account SuperLink?, its well known among the masses what kind of idiots frequent XBL. To hell with swearing I do it all the time on XBL,] most people dont have isse with that at all, its the other type, they ones inflicted with mental retardation due to inbreeding.

LOL Linkyshinks, I keep making typos today. Um, I edited my post. I was meant to say " Isn't calling someone a red neck generally seen as racist?"

I can't play online - dial-up. Fact is though, even if I could have broadband, I don't think I would use it that much. It doesn't appeal to me.

It does seem though that on the surface, Nintendo's online service would suit my services if I could use it. If I had the opportunity to play people I know, I would be happy with that. Sure, speaking directly to them would be nice, but not essential. I certainly have no patience to deal with dickheads and wankers as described by those who enjoy the other services mentioned.

I am not quite sure why there seems to be so much angst on this matter. I agree, on the surface, that Nintendo's service is not in the league of its competitor, but it is a deliberate decision. Why get your panties in a bind over it? Nintendo set up a service specifically with its clientele in mind. I am sure they researched this and came up with the service needed. Bitching about it isn't going to change anything. As a parent, this sounds like the kind of service I would want for my kids.

iCAME said:
LOL Linkyshinks, I keep making typos today. Um, I edited my post. I was meant to say Isnt calling someone a red neck generally seen as racist?

Dude they call themselves that name, they dont see it as derogatory at all. I saw a programme here not long ago where a family of Rednecks went to a annual convention for Rednecks, Rednexpo . Look the word up for yourself.

The kind of things they had seminars on at these conventions begs belief

SuperLink said:

Linkyshinks [LS] said:I am not talking about those that take games too seriously I am taking about homophobic, rascist, and sexist people that abuse others with any reason what so ever. Do you even have a XBL account SuperLink?, its well known among the masses what kind of idiots frequent XBL. To hell with swearing I do it all the time on XBL,] most people dont have isse with that at all, its the other type, they ones inflicted with mental retardation due to inbreeding.

I dont have an XBOX, so I dont have an XBL account, but I can automatically see why Nintendo dont want voice chat or communication with strangers. The Wii is a family console. The Media would slaughter Nintendo for that.

I agree, and I do appreciate the fact we dont have that crap. Surely you must be able to agree though that if we could have safe Voice Chat among Wii Friends it would be wonderful and a enchancement of the experience, and one that elder Wii owners deserve to have. Let parental controls and parents eliminate the dangers, dont exclude everyone from enjoying a aspect of online gaming that most adults are now very used to.

( Edited on 20.09.2007 14:58 by Linkyshinks [LS] )

I think Voice Chat among Wii Friends will be done... eventually. Knowing Nintendo the first games to use it will be released next year. I think it'll prolly be BWii.

I agree, and I do appreciate the fact we dont have that crap. Surely you must be able to agree though that if we could have safe Voice Chat among Wii Friends it would be wonderful and a enchancement of the experience, and one that elder Wii owners deserve to have. Let parental controls and parents eliminate the dangers, dont

Instead we get people of likes seen on the Wi-fi forum.

What I like about XBL is just how simple and accessible it is. You need a manual to understand Nintendo Wi-Fi at first.

I think Nintendo will introduce voice chat in 2009 the earliest. Downloadable DS demos in 2010 and the option to purchase Wii Points with stars in 2012 on Wii2. They do seem to take so long. The fact that they have yet to give us that last one shows just how slow they are.

Hopefully the third parties break past Nintendo with decent services.

Linkyshinks [LS] said:

SuperLink said:

Linkyshinks [LS] said:I am not talking about those that take games too seriously I am taking about homophobic, rascist, and sexist people that abuse others with any reason what so ever. Do you even have a XBL account SuperLink?, its well known among the masses what kind of idiots frequent XBL. To hell with swearing I do it all the time on XBL,] most people dont have isse with that at all, its the other type, they ones inflicted with mental retardation due to inbreeding.

I dont have an XBOX, so I dont have an XBL account, but I can automatically see why Nintendo dont want voice chat or communication with strangers. The Wii is a family console. The Media would slaughter Nintendo for that.

I agree, and I do appreciate the fact we dont have that crap. Surely you must be able to agree though that if we could have safe Voice Chat among Wii Friends it would be wonderful and a enchancement of the experience, and one that elder Wii owners deserve to have. Let parental controls and parents eliminate the dangers, dont exclude everyone from enjoying a aspect of online gaming that most adults are now very used to.

I really think this whole "XBL voice chat is full of idiots" thing is total nonsense. I played XBL for three years, and in that time, I observed that during 'Quick games', the nobhead frequency at about one or two out of every ten games or so. When they did crop up, they were always promptly muted and booted. Once you settle in with a regular group of buddies, that frequency drops considerably to almost nothing. Honestly, it's absolute bollocks to praise the Wii's online for not supporting voice chat as standard. If I wanted to be a prick on WiFi, I don't need to be able talk to do it at all. I can just ruin the games/rounds/matches by playing in a stupid manner, team-killing and what-have-you. The lack of standard voice chat simply inhibits the free communication that XBL gives you. The standard voice comms allow for more complicated and organized gameplay, too.

Rainbow Six 3, for example, would never ever have worked without voice chat as standard. That game is very team-based, and in a game with even merely decent-level RS players, to win you've got to co-ordinate your attacks and talk to each other. That's actual gameplay made possible by the amazing voice-communication which XBL offers, as standard in every game. So please stop with all the "It's great to lack voice-chat on Wii! Really stops people hurting my feelings!" stuff. It's nonsense. Like I said, in my experience the prick to nice guy/gal ratio is very small, and when they do crop up, they're generally immediately booted by the host. If you're honestly not exaggerating and really do find yourself arguing with people on XBL that much LS, then maybe the problem is you?

Nintendo's online is absolutely dire. "It's free!" - Yeah well, it best be free. Can't really imagine anyone actually paying money for that shit. XBL on the other hand, is amazing. And as much as peeps (Nintendo fanboys) may try and concentrate and scrutinize the bill, blowing it out of all proportions-

SuperLink said:
The Wii is a family console. The Media would slaughter Nintendo for that.

Sorry you made a spelling mistake, let me correct it for you.

The Wii is a "kids" console.

There we go.

--------------------------------------------

As for the thread in detail, I agree with the above post. Anyone that is arguing with the people on XBL, have probably caused it themselves with such narrow minded views and fanboy followings - its bound to cause arguements online.

Xbox 360: Xbox Live is not free because games have dedicated servers to provide lag free games, a massive host of free game demos that I check daily (fresh content, very nice), all your game trailers and videos, a movie download service in america (and europe soon) and the best gaming social network you can find providing stats, hiscores, achievements and leaderboards for the majority of games - all... interlinked.

PC: I can click a button on my PC here called "Steam", it is a similar system but not nearly as impressive. Want to know how much steam costs me? Nothing. I get game updates, demos, trailers, games, arcade titles, game servers - just not of a quality that matches the XBL service.

Wii: Okay so we have the free aspect, great, do we have the quality of 360? No. Voice chat? No. An arcade system that is not an insult? No. A matchmaking system that is not an insult? No. A friends system that is not an insult? No.

Conclusion - PC and 360 offer a fantastic internet gaming package, the Wii offers an insulting online package.

Anyone to reply saying otherwise is clearly just trying to hold onto any attempt at being a fanboy. Ask anyone that is not biased, go to IGN, Gamespot, etc, any where you want - The Wii online service is an insult.

Lastly: The 100 player thing is not really impressive, it is what I expect already. Halo 3 supports 64 players online, it is something you will see very soon.

( Edited on 21.09.2007 11:41 by Wo33eR )

The Wii is promoted to an audience of all ages, all ages can honestly enjoy it, as long as the games are good, which they currently aren't as a whole, but that's the fault of the developers.

To aim something at all ages, it has to be child friendly.

There's no point arguing about Nintendo's online system, because they won't change it, due to their audience, sure they can imrpvoe it by having Voice Chat in friend matches, but matchup will never be as free as it is on XBL.

I really think this whole "XBL voice chat is full of idiots" thing is total nonsense. I played XBL for three years, and in that time, I observed that during 'Quick games', the nobhead frequency at about one or two out of every ten games or so. When they did crop up, they were always promptly muted and booted.

EDIT: I mean come on. The fucking ZAPPER is controversial!? What hope do Nintendo have of trying to pull off an online system like XBL!?

( Edited on 21.09.2007 13:23 by SuperLink )

While of course Nintendo's consoles are for kids, I don't believe that the advent of standard voice-chat on Wii Online would usher in a swathe of lawsuits in Nintendo's direction. If Microsoft don't get sued for the sometimes lewd-conduct of it's XBL members, then why should Nintendo? It'd only be a matter of plonking a disclaimer on there, and then Nintendo would be totally free from responsibility, in the event of a child being sworn at. They could even implement no voice servers, and voice-only servers. Those two very simple things would solve the "issue" entirely?

Therefore, I find it very difficult to believe that Nintendo have omitted voice-chat "for the safety of the kids". That just doesn't make sense. However, what does make sense, and what I find very easy to believe, is that Nintendo just haven't bothered with something which was made standard years ago, because that'd require resources, development, and effort. As we all know, Nintendo don't operate like MS and Sony.

Whereas their business models involve incurring losses to provide awesome stuff at low prices, for eventual profit, Nintendo's business model is one of instant profit. Everything Nintendo sell, they make a killing on it. They aren't going to spend loads on an XBL-style service and keep it totally free (like Sony), because that'd go against the company's business model. Additionally, they aren't going to spend loads on it and make it into a pay-service either, because they've no hope of matching XBL either way.

So, I think they're just not bothering that much with it, simply because there isn't much point for them to do so. Makes much more sense than the "Oh, won't somebody puh-leeeease think of the children!?" guff that's floating around here. Nintendo don't care about the children, and it'd be ridiculously simple for them to implement voice-chat, and keep the kiddies safe with non-voice-chat servers. Face it, it's not for the kids, it's because they can't be arsed.

I don't care about the children either, & believe me I'd love voice chat, & for WiFi to be ALMOST as good as XBL, but it's this hole Nintendo have dug themselves into.

The problem is, Nintendo are one of those stuck up companies that won't take suggestions or advice. A good example is the Super Paper Mario EU glitch. Nintendo won't make a patch for it, they expect everyon to send their game back & get a new disc etc.

If Nintendo took actually took suggestions... well it'd all be a lot better. Nintendo should be able to see thay their online service isn't well recieved by the hardcore audience.

Things from Nintendo that have gotten a stupid amount of media coverage while their MS/Sony equivelents havn't:

-Pictochat (wtf)
-Zapper (wtf)
-The Wii & DS Browsers can be used for children to look at pornography, or other offensive material (& PSP/DC can't!?)

That's what I mean. If it were me, I'd absolutely love for Nintendo to just ditch the casual/kiddy audience, like they had all the way up 'till N64, & most of GC aswell, & just make games for gamers, like they should.

I find it strange that you want them to ditch the casual/kiddy auidence when you have a "cutesy" pokemon doing cutesy faces and a cutesy signature with wario and yoshi smiling on a baby blue background.

No offense meant, but your stlye reminds me of everything that makes Nintendo kiddy .

Pok

SuperLink said:
Things from Nintendo that have gotten a stupid amount of media coverage while their MS/Sony equivelents havntictochat (wtf)-Zapper (wtf)-The Wii & DS Browsers can be used for children to look at pornography, or other offensive material (& PSP/DC cant!?)Thats what I mean.

I get you, but there have been equal amounts of non-Nintendo stuff being scapegoated over the years. The few that you've pointed out there were always just nonsense stirred up by religious fanatics anyway. Anyone with half a brain knows there's nothing in those empty allegations at Nintendo. I maintain that the lack of voice-chat is not through any fear of children's safety. The fact that the latter is totally, and very easily avoidable anyway, through use of differing servers for different crowds makes it a complete non-issue, anyway.

It's just through apathy. They know they cannot match XBL, so no-one's going to pay money for it. Equally, they don't want to loose money going down the road Sony have, spending lots of money trying to really develop it and get it as close to XBL as possible, whilst still keeping it free. That's the bottom-line, in my opinion. Nintendo aren't in a position where they particularly need to do anything to make guys like you and me cream our pants over what they're doing. They have a new audience now. Until such a time as things go sour for them, they'll continue to shun us.

( Edited on 21.09.2007 15:57 by Oni )

Copied from that other place, in that shed or something, although originally about smash bros, I guess applies a bit here now.....

I used to play AA a fair bit (before my pc became too shit to play it), and it was nice to talk a bit (when they were decent players and not the usual stereotype asses), and even be part of a clan, but that was more of a by-product to me and didn't see it as an immense part of the game. It could help enjoyment a bit at times, but I didn't feel completely at loss when I didn't have that. Communication in the game was pretty much standard as it's pushed as much more of a team game and requires team tactics. SSBB is most commonly (unless under certain circumstances) a vs game, so I don't see the community aspect as being as important as it was in AA, nor do I desire it to be. It would be nice to have things like voice chat in-fight, but I probably won't sorely miss it. Maybe in terms of setting up more matches between friends, but looking at the screenshots the game looks like it has a personal message type ting under your name (one of them even says "brawl tonight at 8" or something like that), so I can hope that will help and hold out for more info regarding communication. I only see it as more of a problem in Bwii because that requires more tactical thought, and therefore in co-op would require more communication between players - I'm not sure which comes out first (might be Bwii), but I'm begging for a surprise announcement or rumor or something for headsetness in Bwii.

And I (hope) Nintendo (or at least Kuju) wouldn't be like that in regards to sales and online. Strikers seemed like a pretty positive step, and MP3 made use of friend vouchers (something that I see as very community focused seeing as you are encouraged to give them out for bonuses, find new mates in spite of FC and luckily doesn't use separate friend codes). I wouldn't like to think a company with such a status as Nintendo would be almost spiteful in a way to do that. They appear to know very much what people say, and in the more open/honest interviews (not PR driven ones) it never comes across as any developers train of thought as being that at all, and I don't think any individual would be as lazy as that, especially with bigger franchises that many people tend to have a bit of an attachment too and have a pretty large legacy behind them, most people internally at Nintendo (seen very much by the amount of delays some games go through) are very much of a mentality of getting it to perfection. E: Main point: Now to you and me it may not seem like that if a game, as here, doesn't have voice chat or some other feature that we expect, but then that's not always the developers choice, for example a headset relies on an extra piece of hardware and everything to go with it to make it work, which would rely upon a completely different part of Nintendo or even the higher ups to get into gear, or it might even just be a situation of focus and getting the basics into place first (server, features, reliability etc) seeing as these are some of their first online games. All hypotheticals I know, but still.

( Edited on 21.09.2007 18:24 by Modplan Man )

( Edited on 21.09.2007 18:24 by Modplan Man )

The fact is, if Nintendo really wanted to they could easily make a decent online service in the vein of Microsoft's child-friendly. They could add in the option to mute abusive gamers, send complaints, perhaps even have some type of age restriction system. For example, ditch the friend codes and have profiles where the ages of the people you're playing against would be displayed. Add to this the option of playing age-restricted matches. Win win for everyone, especially us as we wouldn't have to listen to those whiny, high-pitched tweeners anymore.

Of course, some people might lie about their age so the system is hardly foolproof. However, I've yet to hear of any case of child-grooming on the age restriction-less XBL, and you could be sure that if such a case was reported, Microsoft would be ripped to shreads regardless of their console's 'hardcore' reputation.

Nintendo could start a marketing campaign as well, focused on safe gaming and encouraging parents to observe what their kids are playing. They could talk about how the Wii should be placed in a place where it can be easily monitored, like the living room and that they should encourage their kids to report any abuse. Safety through education. Also, you don't have to actually buy a headset if you don't want to.

Alot of these controversies surrounding Nintendo are overblown. That Wii Zapper thing was just one blog and the subsequent criticism of it. Hardly a massive amount of media coverage. Nintendo probably don't even know about it.

I seriously doubt anyone would expect a Wii online service anywhere near equalling the XBL. A fairly decent service would be more than enough. Better matchmaking features, optional voice chat and the like. Nothing too revolutionary. Just what's been implemented as standard on other free online services for years now.

I agree with LS's, Wo33er's and Marty's points on this, especially the apathy comment. That's the real issue here. I don't really have much else to add to theirs, so just read them again instead.

Nintendo could easily make more servers, but I guess they can't be bothered. It's probably because their service is so popular. Like, almost as popular as XBL, if not more (not popular as in better, you know what I mean)

I guess Nintendo can't be arsed to make it better because they're already getting enough from it... They don't really care about what the hardcore audience really want, I hope they still do, but sometimes I wonder. In any case they aren't the same Nintendo they used to be.

It's a good thing WiFi is free, otherwise noone would get it. Actually, forget that, it's a bad thing, because if noone got it Nintendo would have no choice but to improve it.

Voice Chat will come along eventually. Casual gaming will get old, even if it takes 5 years, Nintendo has to snap out of it sometime & smell the Ramen.

'Cos they're Japanese, & Ramen smells nicer than coffee or Bacon.

"As of August 2007, Xbox Live has over 7.1 million active users."

Yes, that means that XBL has a larger population than most countries, such as: Israel, Switzerland, Denmark, Finland, Norway, Ireland, New Zealand.... and so forth.

... Nintendo Wii online has 8 games online

The fact is, if Nintendo really wanted to they could easily make a decent online service in the vein of Microsoft's child-friendly. They could add in the option to mute abusive gamers, send complaints...

( Edited on 22.09.2007 03:18 by Grumbler )

Sorry, bad sentence structuring there from me. The second sentence doesn't follow the way it should from the first. Should have put in "They could add in to their already existing service the option to mute...blahblah...etc. [just like in Live]" I know that those features are already on the XBL. I'm not a complete idiot. Fuck you for presuming as such.

Edit: Unless you're being funny.

( Edited on 22.09.2007 04:08 by CuRoi )

Pok

Wo33eR said:
As of August 2007, Xbox Live has over 7.1 million active users.Yes, that means that XBL has a larger population than most countries, such as: Israel, Switzerland, Denmark, Finland, Norway, Ireland, New Zealand.... and so forth.... Nintendo Wii online has 8 games online

So your comparing users to amount of games? Yeah ok........

@ Oni

I dont have arguments with anyone on XBL myself, but when people start saying sexist, racist or homophobic crap I simply switch them off. I dont want to have to hear it. I dont mind swearing at all but when it's cursing of a particular nature nobody wants to hear that crap unless they themselves do it .

( Edited on 22.09.2007 07:24 by Linkyshinks [LS] )

RyanTWilli said:

Wo33eR said:As of August 2007, Xbox Live has over 7.1 million active users.Yes, that means that XBL has a larger population than most countries, such as: Israel, Switzerland, Denmark, Finland, Norway, Ireland, New Zealand.... and so forth.... Nintendo Wii online has 8 games online

So your comparing users to amount of games? Yeah ok........

You try finding how many Wii Wifi users there are. Microsoft have been announcing the increasing amount constantly... Nintendo seem to be hidding ALL information about it.

After 30minutes I thought sod it, 8 games compared to the 100's for Xbox Live should be enough of a comparison.