Holy crap, a sonic topic without my two cents

How could you lock that topic without allowing me, Sonic teams biggest fan, to comment.

First off Mario 64 revolutionary. Hardly, it borrowed most of it's revolutionary ideas from NiGHTS. Full 3D, analogue stick control, triple jump, all in NiGHTS and was out a year before it. Hell PAL users had Sonic in full 3D before they had mario.
(reference PAL releases, NiGHTS - Spring/summer 96, Xmas NiGHTS (including sonic into dreams) - Christmas 96, Mario 64 1997)

Secondly when people say the sonic games were better in 2D they really mean the Sonic games were better on the older systems. The advance games are 2D and they are not as good as the 3D ones or the classics.

Thirdly Sonic is not the only culprit here. Who here can say Wind waker was better than OOT or LTTP? Who can say Mario susnhine was better than bros 1, 3 and the world series? Mario kart double dash!! as good as super mario kart or Kart 64? Has no-one noticed the 2D/3D feature on THIS site.

Finally All 3D sonics crap on Mario sunshine from a great height. It's true Sonic team could give us a better Sonic title than Sonic heroes, but the same could be said for Nintendo and better mario than sunshine, better mario kart than double dash and better zelda than wind waker (hopefully they new one will be).

Finally All 3D sonics crap on Mario sunshine from a great height

What the hell are you going on about. Mario sunshine was of the highest quality, whether it had a fludd nozel or not. It LOOKED better than 3d sonic. It PLAYED better than 3d sonic. It was more involving that 3d sonic. It was much more inovative applied well than Sonic.
How can you not see that Mario sunshine is of a MUCH higher calibre than ANY of the 3D sonics. Sure I didnt like the game but I can still see that it SMACKS of quality and style.

I dont ask for sonic 3d to be better than its predecesors. I ask that they make the game with the sort of quality gameplay and visuals that the modern day great games are capable of.

Lets break this down for you right here.
Not many sensible people here will complain that MArio Sunshine, Zelda wind waker and mario Kart double dash were low quality games.

I am sure I can find tons of people who agree that Sonic 3D has been utter shit compared to them.

My god I dont want to sound naive but SO MANY games magazines agree too. And no they arent Biased and no they dont HATE sonic, people who say that need to grow up. Fact is these people are profesionals and as such act profesionaly and give honest opinions on games. Read Cube and NGC. Im not sure about Edge though.

Ikariowarrior do EDGE Blam the 3d sonics on gamecube to date?

With the exception of Sonic adventure 2 battle which did have some good moments. Namely the later lvs te knuckles searching bits were balls.

[ Edited by Redking on 2004/8/12 23:42 ]

its an infair comparison. It shouldnt be done. 3d sonics are very good games that should be compared to the likes of mario sunshine, not the old 2d sonics.

They might be good games but they aren't good Sonic games

well whenm i play 2d sonic game i feel like im having a good time. When i play 3D Sonic games i get a huge feeling of dissapointement dont see y they shouldnt be compared there made by sega there both sonic it was segas job to make sonic as entertaining as he was in 2D was it not? and een if i wasnt comparing them i would still prefer Sonic in 2D as i enjoy it more.

How come nobody compares LTTP with WW then?

They do actually ppl sometimes say they prefer LTTP than they do the 3D iterations JB has said numerous times that he prefers LTTP

Because wind waker doesent dissapoint so people dont have reason to compare it. and If they do compare it they find they find that Wind waker is better.

The feeling was retained in the Zelda games.

Yeah what Gastrian said.

Um *waves hand in the air* sir! Sir! I didn't like Sonic Heroes because it was like Mario Sunshine - slooooow, plodding and boring.

Mwhah, that knocked you out

Y does the frame rate in Sonic heros 2P mode so crap is it renderware they use casue it does the same think in burnout 2

Go to All-cube.com and ask about mario kart:double dash. There are plenty that say this is a poorly done game.

Wind waker may be great but it's nothing compared to OOT and WW. The 3D sonics are the same here, they're not as good as the classics (with the exception of SAdventure2) but they are still good.

And you're right about Mario sunshine in a way. For some reason people think this game is good. It's bad, worse than SH easy. Took the best bits out of 64 and added crap. FLUDD is the only thing that saves this from being average. 2 week job with no replay value.

2 week job with no replay value

problems with SMS

- The levels were boring and similar
- The mario model looked better in Smash bros
- The mario model is ripped from 64. all the animations are the same
- The loss of Crawl, punch and kick.
- Extras that disappear when you change area, including Yoshi.
- Small levels
- Less challenges than any of the 3D sonic's. Length comes from Blue coins which are placed in stupid places.
- Too few and too stupid unlockables. getting the 120 shines is for satisfaction only.
- The difficultly curve is so random, the last boss is so easy. Shadow mario, the 7th mission of 8 on each level is so easy it's pointless. But the manta and mecha bowser, which appear in the middle of the game were solid.
- Non existant plot, at least 3D sonic tries.
- No ranks/times to beat means no replay value

Oh and none of the levels look as good as the city levels, the casino levels or the airfleet levels in Sonic heroes.

what iv played of the 3D sonic is that the plot is shite and the casino zone loooks turd like most of sonic heros levels, and have annoying cheesy voices

[ Edited by Blade2t3 on 2004/8/13 1:19 ]

Bit like metroid prime then

Hell no. You had hard mode and a time you could beat. The difficulty curve was exponential, they way it should be. And you had nice art galleries that made sense, as well as connectivity extras, such as the prime suit.

I didnt feel the need to go through it again they made me walk through areas so many times i didnt want to visit them again. maby in a year when iv forgotten the locations

what about sonic A2:B? that game was BAD
BAD camera
WORSE graphics
AWFUL leavels.
TERRIABLE and confusing story

the running missions-
too linar
bad camra
rail grinding is way to hard

the serch missions-
it takes such a long time to find one stinking jewl
i'd rather play ET for the atari than find a stinking jewl
way too hard
jewls are hidden in stupid places

the robot missions
locking on is too diffacult
you can't aim
it is boring

bosses-
stupid and too diffacult
last boss is way too hard due to the fact that you have to remember when to jump because the camra angles are soooo bad it is also not understandable

the chao thing is retarted. and the battle mode sucks

I liked SA2B. The camera angles were bad, but there's probably not a 3D game that fast with so many twists and turns, and even going upside down. You really couldn't do a lot better. Other than that, it's the complete opposite of what you said, Masterstyl. The graphics weren't exceptional, but it was one of the first GC games, they couldn't do everything back then, so it suited me fine. Most of the levels were rather fun, after you conquered camera angle problems. The story, while not the most original, was actually done very well, and not at all confusing. Rail grinding was too easy, that's why grinding was bad, it got boring. The jewel missions weren't that hard, just really long, and rather pointless. The shooting missions were rather boring, but again, because it was easy, not because it was hard. It was mindlessly easy to lock-on. Aiming was done by locking-on (there should've been a manual aim). The bosses were extremely easy. The hardest was the next-to-last boss, that was the only semi-hard boss. The last boss was too easy (*hint* I tried 20 times on the next-to-last, beat the last in one try. It took me forever to figure out how to beat the nex-to-last. That probably took up about 18 tries.).
The chao thing depended on taste. It was one of those things that you liked or hated.

[ Edited by TAG on 2004/8/12 23:25 ]

I would say the camera angles are excelent in the 3D sonic games. On the fast sections, the camera is positioned low behind your character to give a sence of speed. Then on other levels I think its fantastic the camera positioning, they're not always positioned in the places you'd usually expect and are designed to give almost a sence of confusion - it builds tension in the level - while it still provides an excelent camera angle for the gameplay. The only trouble is when it occasionally gets stuck behind a wall or something - but most of these glitches were sorted out for DX and 2 Battle.

TAG said that Sonic is too fast, with twisty bends and so forth so a camera wouldn't work.

However, F-Zero GX does all of Sonic, but better, and the camera just does it's job. Albeit, fixed, but the jerkiness and loss of control in camera systems in games today is horrendous.

Masterhunter, even though I like both SA2B and SMS, SMS is still a better game. It has a better storyline, and when you said that the levels are too similar, what about SA2B's levels? ALL the scavenger missions are the same boring crappy style, (except the awesome music). SMS is a far better game overall.

Knuckle's levels in SA2B would've been excelent if it werent for that absolutlely crap music. I love the rest of the soundtrack - but the "music" on those levels makes me want to rip my hair out - its awful! *aaargh*!

WHAT!!!???!!! The music on Knuckles' levels were the only thing that got me thro! Wild Canyon and Pumpkin Hill are great!