Debate | Rareware: Good Buy or Good...Bye! Page 1

jesusraz 05.01.2004#1

This topic is based on the recent news article based on the UK games company Rareware, who developed Donkey Kong Country, GoldenEye, Killer Instinct, Conker's Bad Fur Day and Banjo-Kazooie (to name a few) for Nintendo...but are now completely owned by Microsoft. To read the full article please click the following link:

Rareware in Turmoil | Nintendo's Wise Decision

But now we want to open up the topic to the masses.

What are your thoughts on Rare, its games from the past, present and future, the sale to Microsoft and the reported problems within the company...?

Rareware: Good Buy or Good...Bye!
Did Nintendo Dupe Microsoft?
Article by Adam Riley [ Jesusraz :: Head Writer :: Moderator ]

Now owned by 'The Enemy', aka Microsoft!

Setting the Scene...
Apparently, according to various sources, some members of the ex-Nintendo partner Rareware - now owned solely by Microsoft - as well as a few of its former staff members got together and started discussing the current situation at the company. From what can be read below it does not look like things are as rosy as Microsoft would have us believe and it is looking more and more likely that Nintendo has pulled a 'fast one' on the XBOX-developer, dropping the once-almighty Twycross company on the American monster's lap just before the developer was about to self-implode. What follows are ten short messages that were posted, have been slightly amended so that they are easily readable (some were rushed and in rather messy English), each one followed by a few personal C3 comments.

A Scandal in the Making?

"Perfect Dark 2 has been canned from XBOX1 and is going over to XBOX2. Sabre Man Stamped has been canned from XBOX1 and may not even be made for XBOX2. Kameo looks like it's not going to be finished and may be canned. [Grabbed by the] Ghoulies has just been launched, sales are not to good and it should have been canned. Conker ['s Bad Fur Day]? Small little rodent? When are you going to learn? Piñata is going to be a game that you get free on the XBOX2 hard drive. You put seeds in a virtual garden and water them and watch them grow. The more games you buy the bigger your garden gets. Nice idea I think it was SHIGERU MIYAMOTO who came up with the idea for the GameCube but didn't bother to implement it as he thought it would be a waste of time.
"Please someone from Microsoft go into Rareware and fire all the producers they are all useless and very rich, it's not fare on the artists as they are some of the best in the world, but most of them have gone on to better companies as they have lost faith in there team leaders. Someone I know got made redundant the other day, while four of my work colleagues were taken off a team and put into a room with menial tasks to do. The tasks were going to be reviewed each month until the management decided they have grounds to fire them. Do you think Microsoft can sort it out? What do you think..."

So the superb line-up of XBOX games for this generation is rapidly drying-up then? Rare's 'ultimate' range of games is starting to look slightly less impressive. But surely Microsoft will not allow Rare to completely die off. Grabbed by the Ghoulies has performed so badly at retail that it seems confidence in the equally unknown (other than by us Nintendo fans, of course!) Kameo: Elements of Power, with its interesting animal-takeover abilities, has quickly begun to wane. Take the risk of another much-publicised failure, or wait until a higher status product is near completion? Tough question to be answered...Microsoft and Rare will be hoping that the reworked Conker's Bad Fur Day will garner more attention than the late-in-the-day N64 version did, and the online elements of 'Live & Uncut' will of course please those who forked out for XBOX Live. Sabre Man Stamped - the game that was Donkey Kong Racing before Rare lost the DK license post-sale. But, as with Kameo, this game has been in development since before the GameCube hit the streets, so should not really have had too much trouble making the current life-cycle of the XBOX. Oh, and nice to see Shigeru Miyamoto being so influential that even one of his discarded ideas has been picked up...although, I think I definitely agree with the Mario-maker here - the idea is nice, but completely pointless and a waste of developer resources!

The new look Joanna Dark, designed by Wil Overton of ex-Super Play & N64 Magazine fame!

The new look Joanna Dark, designed by Wil Overton of ex-Super Play & N64 Magazine fame!

Microsoft will be hoping Conker's antics will be better received on the XBOX than they were on the N64

"I'd laugh if I didn't know every word of it was true. I too was once a Rare drone until I left. I really really loved the company before I joined. I truly believed that it was a world class company. It isn't. It pays badly. It's managed badly. People spend a lot of time moaning and bitching about thing. People look out for themselves. This kind of culture doesn't just spring up overnight, it's the result of years of carefully planned activities such as: Ignoring your staff. Having a pay raise freeze, and capping the Xmas bonus (6 months before they sold to Microsoft). Rewarding you based on the length of time at the company or whether you are friends with the top players (or in the case of the PDZ designer, married to them). Having a half hour lunch. It's in the middle of no-where so you can't do anything during a working week (like visit the bank, or pop into town). No external email. No external internet access apart from a team shared "internet" machine. I too have friends at Rare. I know a few are already making plans to leave. The Rare way though is simply to replace them with 21 year olds straight from Uni that think, like I did, that working stupid hours for Rare is a dream in itself. The dream wears fine pretty quick.
"Rare: the classic example of power. It corrupts. One last tip though. If you are in anyway in control of another employee.....please go on a management training course. Really...do. Because you lack the skills needed to manage. This is not a Rare thing. Lots of people in this industry think that because they're a good artist or programmer that they can be a good manager. Oh well. Such is life."

Rareware were formerly known under the mantel of 'Ultimate: Play the Game', churning out classics for the Spectrum such as Atic Atac, Knight's Lore and a game that everyone should have heard of now, thanks to the updated GBA game, Sabrewulf. The team picked up cult status amongst fans everywhere, right up until it unleashed another great love of many - Battletoads on the Super Nintendo. This was when Nintendo started to take great notice of the company and decided to buy a small stake in Rare, who then asked Nintendo if its team could play around with the Silicon Graphics workstations being used to create the Ultra 64 (as the N64 was originally titled), managed to come up with a technique called ACM (Advance Computer Modelling) and then were commissioned by Nintendo to implement it into a Donkey Kong game - the rest is history! So people generally have this idea that working at Rareware would be the dream job because it is owned by the Stamper Brothers, with a nice family air around the place, and the games produced are nothing short of inventive and extraordinary. But hey, just look at the quote above - it seems that if you take a closer look at the utopian company, you will actually find it is riddled with little cracks and faults just like any other developer...nothing is perfect, after all.

The message that now appears on the Rareware Official Site, and one that still saddens many Nintendo fans...

The message that now appears on the Rareware Official Site, and one that still saddens many Nintendo fans...

Other than the odd GBA title, this will probably never be seen again on a Rare product!

"Here's a thought. Rare...a company with a Nursery for it's employees. Wonderful. That saves a load per month for a lot of staff that have worked there for a long time...and now have a family and children. Amazingly it was closed....weeks before Xmas last year...why? Oh yes....to save money. And to avoid paying the nursery staff Xmas bonuses (staff they took with them on holiday to look after the kids....nice). And of course because all the Stamper/Tilston children had left (making it soooo obviously pointless). Oh well....I guess they must suffer the plague of evil employees. Maybe we should set up a new charity....Millionaires in Need. Give generously...they do have to pay for Steven Stamper after all...the highest paid gardener in the WORLD...."

Now, of course, this could have been a huge coincidence, but the underlying point is perhaps that the Stamper Brothers have escalated to such a level that they have begun to overlook some of the finer points of running the company? Who knows...it is certainly not for us to judge!

"Please Microsoft storm us as you normally do and get rid of the management before I lose all credibility. P.S. can Rare's so called management stop telling off its staff for posting notes on fat babies, you're better off just getting in some professional management who wouldn't stoop so low to see if their staff were posting notes at lunch. I'm looking forward to the Xmas party but please don't make me dress up in children's clothes again. Can you also give me a week's wage at Christmas instead of the usual £250."

A lack of freedom of speech within a company can feel restrictive - but it all depends on just what information has been posted on the Internet forums. Surely each person there will have had to sign some sort of non-disclosure form to prevent them from leaking information about upcoming titles? Would this not also then mean that certain restrictions should be enforced upon employees? However, obviously there are some disgruntled members of staff over at the Twycross branch, which is something that should be sorted out as speedily as possible.

The ghost of Rare's past...

The now infamous Rare Christmas card from December 2001, complete with an XBOX, PS2, mobile phone, GameBoy & GameCube under a large tree!

"You're joking? They've been whinging about postings on Fatbabies? Typical Rare: moan about the problems rather then try and address the issues. 'You better stop being nasty to me or I'll scream and I'll cry and I'll hold my breath until I turn purple'. Problem for me, as an Ex-Rare is I don't actually think the management (I always got on quite well with Betteridge and Bayliss) are arseholes. Really...I don't. I just think they think that because they could run a company with 30 employees....well heck then can run one with 190+. You can't. It's not your fault. No one can. You need a localised management structure. Some guy with a problem is not going to go talk to Farmer about an issue because: He earns more in a month then you do in about 5 years. He will completely disregard what you have to say...not becaue he's horrible but because the Rare way got them this far...thus the Rare way is the right way. So they won't listen, and they will tell you so. Without even trying to put it in a nice way. He (and they) will remember what you said and hold a grudge against you in the future - even if this is just paranoia, it's paranoia brought on by the current structure in place. Too rich, too quick with little thought about the company outside the director and the choosen few except in terms of "those slacking employees". It really is a pity because I still love Rare (obviously I'm a masochist), and it breaks my heart to see what is plainly in front of their faces (can't see the wood for the trees come to mind) - that the end....in one form or another, is nigh. A company best asset period, is it's employees. Not it's IP. Not it's portfollio. Not it's past history. Not it's computer controlled office. Once that's gone then your just left with fanboys, a bad reputation and being laughed at in the industry press. Oh....and of course Microsoft will replace you all.
Ho hum."

That first comment is how I would see it as well - quit complaining about the situation and get it resolved in the calmest and quickest possible manner. The point about how the team has expanded is a very important one, as many people, myself included, believe that the same work mechanic that has proved successful right from the start can be applied further into the future, despite growth. Obviously this is a huge oversight as there are bound to be fundamental changes as the work group expands, personnel changes and the confidence of the team rises. This is something that Cubed3 will most likely have to consider itself over the next twelve months and more...! There is no room for naivety in such a cut-throat industry - but what can you do if people are obstinate and refuse to listen?

"Hmmm. I worked at Rare for a short while back in 1999, had to leave for "personal reasons" but I always regretted it. This thread makes me think that maybe I was lucky - the Rare of today obviously isn't the same place it was when I was there. At the same time, it's really sad to read so much negativity about a developer I absolutely LOVED right up until a few years ago. When I got my job there, it was literally a life-long dream come true. OK, so I was absolutely the total naive muppet with a lot of passion that Rare like to hire ("£12k a year? No problem!") but I reckon I'd have enjoyed the work-hard, play-hard ethos, had I stayed. What I read now is just depressing. Is there nobody there prepared to defend the place?"

Another case of blinded by the bright lights of Rare. People will have been roped-in by the supposed 'glitz & glamour' of the British development team that was sitting snugly under Nintendo's wing. The harshness of reality is never a good thing...

Nintendo's original look for Donkey Kong...

Nintendo's original look for Donkey Kong...

...and what he now looks like after the Rare transformation!

"Riddle me this then: Why was the Lead Programmer of PD Zero (the man brought into salvage what was left of PD after the Free Rads left) basically fired from the company over 1 1/2 years ago? Was the project stalling...no seemed to be very much on time for Xmas '03 release. Was the project impressive? Looked very nice - a massive leap from PD. Was he hard to get along with? He had a reputation for speaking his mind and his staff respected him (and possibly loathed him in equal measure). Was he incompentent? Seemed to be considered one of the brightest at Rare at the time. Was he not working hard enough? Seemed to be working all the hours in the days....and weekends...and this was the beginning of the middle of the project (i.e. no one else in the company bar Starfox was in).
"So why was he escorted from the building? Oh yes....I remember. The Art Director and the Designer (married to a Stamper sister) decided that they where being "restricted" too much. If you read that correctly you will instantly know this of a case of too many cooks (see if you can finish the sentence for me?). How long did it take them to replace him with a lead programmer that had finished a game? Over 1/2 a year. When can we expect PDZ now (remember I feel it WOULD have made this Xmas previously)? When the Devil has to defrost his car in the morning. So work hard and get rewarded? Or work hard for 2 years then get kicked out because you told the Designer and Art Director they can't have all their toys in the playpen at the same time?"

If this is true, then that is absolutely disgraceful and probably the primary reason behind the reputation Rare has for extremely delayed games. How many times have people complained that a Rare title has been put back yet again? Far too many to count! Surely the game's quality should be placed above any petty quibbles that the head staff might have with other members, otherwise things will simply not work out for the better. A poor state of affairs indeed...Many gamers bought an XBOX purely for Perfect Dark's sequel, but it looks like by the time the follow-up actually comes out, the majority of the public will have completely forgotten about it. I mean, after all, is the Nintendo 64 range of games firmly lodged in your head at the moment? I am an avid Nintendo follower and even I am rapidly losing touch with the 64-bit system, only really remembering the greats like Super Mario 64, Zelda and GoldenEye in specific detail. Just imagine what the average, 'casual gamer' is like. I doubt very much they even recall what the Nintendo 64 was! Hehe...So it looks like the chances of Perfect Dark Zero (or '2' as some are now calling it) being as huge a hit as it would have been early in the GameCube's lifespan are slim. Unless, of course, Microsoft uses it as a launch title for the XBOX 2 and pumps lots of money into its advertising budget.

One of the great Rare GBA games we can expect in 2004!

One of the great Rare GBA games we can expect in 2004!

The game that was once destined to be an early GameCube release - but now XBOX exclusive

"....that'll be "BM" you're talking about. I beleive he resigned after being alledgedly threatened by some people at Rare (hmm)... He was a very, very talented guy - one of the best code optimisers out there - But, boy if its the same person, what a right royal pain in the ass - sounds just like that man "Aquam". License my top secret technology.... I need more money.... etc etc. There's a couple of people at the office that worked indirectly with him - they said PDZ was absolutely jaw-dropping on the GC - and these are some smart renderer people, and now it looks like a sack of sh*t."

Evidence that whilst the XBOX is undoubtedly a more powerful system than the GameCube, the Nintendo machine is far easier to work with and, therefore, simpler to produce great results with...? That really is a shame for the series, if true, because whilst Perfect Dark on the N64 did not compare entirely favourably with the sublime GoldenEye, it was certainly a great step for a branching-off series. There is definitely a lot of potential, that will hopefully (for the sake of gamers and the people that originally worked on the game) be realised.

"But you must lay the blame at the whole PDZ team for, and indeed Rare. Lots of people write code there that no one else gets involved in, and gets checked when people leave. I can think of 5 seperate examples of this of the top of my head."

"Can you belive the PD team are still cutting in shadows to the polygons? They are so far behind the games scene!"

Hmm...

Staff Opinions
Rare was indeed a rare company with such acclaimed titles on the Nintendo 64, but they did begin to go downhill toward the end of the console's illustrious several year history. Their first, Goldeneye was superb and will probably be the favoured title for most fans of the genre and of the James Bond franchise and a game that established the UK based company to where they were, but perhaps not where they are today.
The only title currently from Rare is mediocre, and for those who have followed their portfolio from the past until now, there is a clear sign that their once profound ability to create some of the most loved games is slipping somewhat. However, the charm once found in titles from the company I do belive is found in the recent Xbox game, the style, characters and so forth is there, but the gameplay itself is pitiful, reviews mixed.
Nintendo sold their shares in Rareware a while ago, it shattered fans for both the developer and Nintendo - gone where the days of Banjo, excellent shooters and so forth, but instead I think Rare are introducing their past style and charisma to a new audience. Time will tell if they shall succed. Regardless of anything, I wish them all the best.
- Jorge Baoh [ JB, Admin :: Founder :: Editor ]

What is happening at Rare is a strange old business. When Nintendo sold them off it seemed like a strange decision, the company very much kept the Nintendo 64 system alive and consequently kept Nintendo afloat in the industry. It was the plucky and innovative style of Rare that was so appealing and a factor that made them one of the world's most desired developers. When they finally went to Microsoft some strange things happened at Rare, it all started to go wrong. The best people all wondered off to different projects and companies as a way of showing their displeasure as to the new way the company was being run. Apart from that nothing was heard. Until recently that is. Two forums IGN and Fatbabies have been filled with ex-Rare employees airing their displeasure about the company. It was certainly a big shock and reading all the information to be found on the forums it would seem that the company is in big trouble. The magic is gone and the games industry isn't being filled with quality Rare games anymore. I was never truly bitter about Rare leaving Nintendo, yes like many I was annoyed about it, but to wish bad fortune onto them is foolish. Rare still have the talent to survive and get back onto their feet. I just hope they can get there in time.
- James Temperton [ tempo88 :: Sub-Admin / Editor :: Head of PR ]

At the time the decision to sell Rare off to the highest bidder, despite there major contribution to the life of the N64 seemed like the most bizarre of choices, and confused many gamers, eventually that confusion led to anger, and now after much time to calm down, things seemed to have turned dramatically around. Rather than the likes of Perfect Dark Zero, Conkers Bad Fur Day 2 or what have you, the XBOX has been gifted with just one title, Grabbed By The Ghoulies, a game that has received mixed reviews, and certainly not something that is living up to Rare's reputation. So what is going on? Well these newly discovered forum posts on two major websites could have the answer. Is Rare finally falling apart? Did Nintendo actually make a good business decision? Only time will tell. Perhaps it was all a big scheme between Nintendo and Rare, so Nintendo could buy them back for a fraction of a price, and reunite them to their former glory, but that seems like a bit of a long shot. All we know at the moment, is if the company do start to pick themselves back up again, it's probably not going to happen until the next generation of consoles...
- Karn Spydar Lee Bianco [ Spydarlee :: Writer ]

Rareware or Rare, Where?
Anyway, this is not a Rare-bashing news article, as personally I reckon that despite many of the team members leaving to join other developers (such as Bits Corp, Zoonami and, of course, Free Radical) there is still a vast amount of talent over at Twycross - as can be seen from the excellent Banjo-Kazooie: Grunty's Revenge and the upcoming tasty-looking Sabrewulf for the GBA. But perhaps Nintendo called it right by letting the troubled developer go off to Microsoft for a quite hefty sum of money?

( Edited 13.10.2012 13:05 by Adam Riley )

Edit this post:

This topic is based on the recent news article based on the UK games company Rareware, who developed Donkey Kong Country, GoldenEye, Killer Instinct, Conker's Bad Fur Day and Banjo-Kazooie (to name a few) for Nintendo...but are now completely owned by Microsoft.  To read the full article please click the following link:

Rareware in Turmoil | Nintendo's Wise Decision

But now we want to open up the topic to the masses.

[b]What are your thoughts on Rare, its games from the past, present and future, the sale to Microsoft and the reported problems within the company...?[/b]

<center>Rareware: Good Buy or Good...Bye! Did Nintendo Dupe Microsoft? <a href="/modules/sections/index.php?op=viewarticle&artid=199" target="_blank"> Article by Adam Riley [ Jesusraz :: Head Writer :: Moderator ]</a> </center> <center><a href="/staff/jesusraz/rarelogo.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="/staff/jesusraz/r01.jpg" alt="Rareware..." style="border: 1px solid #37404D" /> <img src="/staff/jesusraz/r02.jpg" alt="Once Nintendo's closest ally..." style="border: 1px solid #37404D" /> <img src="/staff/jesusraz/r03.jpg" alt="Now owned by 'The Enemy', aka Microsoft!" style="border: 1px solid #37404D" /></a></center> <legend>Setting the Scene...</legend> Apparently, according to various sources, some members of the ex-Nintendo partner Rareware - now owned solely by Microsoft - as well as a few of its former staff members got together and started discussing the current situation at the company. From what can be read below it does not look like things are as rosy as Microsoft would have us believe and it is looking more and more likely that Nintendo has pulled a 'fast one' on the XBOX-developer, dropping the once-almighty Twycross company on the American monster's lap just before the developer was about to self-implode. What follows are ten short messages that were posted, have been slightly amended so that they are easily readable (some were rushed and in rather messy English), each one followed by a few personal C3 comments. <hr> <legend>A Scandal in the Making?</legend> <li>"Perfect Dark 2 has been canned from XBOX1 and is going over to XBOX2. Sabre Man Stamped has been canned from XBOX1 and may not even be made for XBOX2. Kameo looks like it's not going to be finished and may be canned. [Grabbed by the] Ghoulies has just been launched, sales are not to good and it should have been canned. Conker ['s Bad Fur Day]? Small little rodent? When are you going to learn? Piñata is going to be a game that you get free on the XBOX2 hard drive. You put seeds in a virtual garden and water them and watch them grow. The more games you buy the bigger your garden gets. Nice idea I think it was SHIGERU MIYAMOTO who came up with the idea for the GameCube but didn't bother to implement it as he thought it would be a waste of time. "Please someone from Microsoft go into Rareware and fire all the producers they are all useless and very rich, it's not fare on the artists as they are some of the best in the world, but most of them have gone on to better companies as they have lost faith in there team leaders. Someone I know got made redundant the other day, while four of my work colleagues were taken off a team and put into a room with menial tasks to do. The tasks were going to be reviewed each month until the management decided they have grounds to fire them. Do you think Microsoft can sort it out? What do you think..."</li> So the superb line-up of XBOX games for this generation is rapidly drying-up then? Rare's 'ultimate' range of games is starting to look slightly less impressive. But surely Microsoft will not allow Rare to completely die off. Grabbed by the Ghoulies has performed so badly at retail that it seems confidence in the equally unknown (other than by us Nintendo fans, of course!) Kameo: Elements of Power, with its interesting animal-takeover abilities, has quickly begun to wane. Take the risk of another much-publicised failure, or wait until a higher status product is near completion? Tough question to be answered...Microsoft and Rare will be hoping that the reworked Conker's Bad Fur Day will garner more attention than the late-in-the-day N64 version did, and the online elements of 'Live & Uncut' will of course please those who forked out for XBOX Live. Sabre Man Stamped - the game that was Donkey Kong Racing before Rare lost the DK license post-sale. But, as with Kameo, this game has been in development since before the GameCube hit the streets, so should not really have had too much trouble making the current life-cycle of the XBOX. Oh, and nice to see Shigeru Miyamoto being so influential that even one of his discarded ideas has been picked up...although, I think I definitely agree with the Mario-maker here - the idea is nice, but completely pointless and a waste of developer resources! <center><img src="/staff/jesusraz/joannadark.jpg" style="border: 1px solid #37404D" alt="The new look Joanna Dark, designed by Wil Overton of ex-Super Play & N64 Magazine fame!" /> <img src="/staff/jesusraz/conker2.jpg" style="border: 1px solid #37404D" alt="Microsoft will be hoping Conker's antics will be better received on the XBOX than they were on the N64" /></center> <li>"I'd laugh if I didn't know every word of it was true. I too was once a Rare drone until I left. I really really loved the company before I joined. I truly believed that it was a world class company. It isn't. It pays badly. It's managed badly. People spend a lot of time moaning and bitching about thing. People look out for themselves. This kind of culture doesn't just spring up overnight, it's the result of years of carefully planned activities such as: Ignoring your staff. Having a pay raise freeze, and capping the Xmas bonus (6 months before they sold to Microsoft). Rewarding you based on the length of time at the company or whether you are friends with the top players (or in the case of the PDZ designer, married to them). Having a half hour lunch. It's in the middle of no-where so you can't do anything during a working week (like visit the bank, or pop into town). No external email. No external internet access apart from a team shared "internet" machine. I too have friends at Rare. I know a few are already making plans to leave. The Rare way though is simply to replace them with 21 year olds straight from Uni that think, like I did, that working stupid hours for Rare is a dream in itself. The dream wears fine pretty quick. "Rare: the classic example of power. It corrupts. One last tip though. If you are in anyway in control of another employee.....please go on a management training course. Really...do. Because you lack the skills needed to manage. This is not a Rare thing. Lots of people in this industry think that because they're a good artist or programmer that they can be a good manager. Oh well. Such is life."</li> Rareware were formerly known under the mantel of 'Ultimate: Play the Game', churning out classics for the Spectrum such as Atic Atac, Knight's Lore and a game that everyone should have heard of now, thanks to the updated GBA game, Sabrewulf. The team picked up cult status amongst fans everywhere, right up until it unleashed another great love of many - Battletoads on the Super Nintendo. This was when Nintendo started to take great notice of the company and decided to buy a small stake in Rare, who then asked Nintendo if its team could play around with the Silicon Graphics workstations being used to create the Ultra 64 (as the N64 was originally titled), managed to come up with a technique called ACM (Advance Computer Modelling) and then were commissioned by Nintendo to implement it into a Donkey Kong game - the rest is history! So people generally have this idea that working at Rareware would be the dream job because it is owned by the Stamper Brothers, with a nice family air around the place, and the games produced are nothing short of inventive and extraordinary. But hey, just look at the quote above - it seems that if you take a closer look at the utopian company, you will actually find it is riddled with little cracks and faults just like any other developer...nothing is perfect, after all. <center><img src="/staff/jesusraz/msowned.jpg" style="border: 1px solid #37404D" alt="The message that now appears on the Rareware Official Site, and one that still saddens many Nintendo fans..." /> <img src="/staff/jesusraz/nintendo.jpg" style="border: 1px solid #37404D" alt="Other than the odd GBA title, this will probably never be seen again on a Rare product!" /></center> <li>"Here's a thought. Rare...a company with a Nursery for it's employees. Wonderful. That saves a load per month for a lot of staff that have worked there for a long time...and now have a family and children. Amazingly it was closed....weeks before Xmas last year...why? Oh yes....to save money. And to avoid paying the nursery staff Xmas bonuses (staff they took with them on holiday to look after the kids....nice). And of course because all the Stamper/Tilston children had left (making it soooo obviously pointless). Oh well....I guess they must suffer the plague of evil employees. Maybe we should set up a new charity....Millionaires in Need. Give generously...they do have to pay for Steven Stamper after all...the highest paid gardener in the WORLD...."</li> Now, of course, this could have been a huge coincidence, but the underlying point is perhaps that the Stamper Brothers have escalated to such a level that they have begun to overlook some of the finer points of running the company? Who knows...it is certainly not for us to judge! <li>"Please Microsoft storm us as you normally do and get rid of the management before I lose all credibility. P.S. can Rare's so called management stop telling off its staff for posting notes on fat babies, you're better off just getting in some professional management who wouldn't stoop so low to see if their staff were posting notes at lunch. I'm looking forward to the Xmas party but please don't make me dress up in children's clothes again. Can you also give me a week's wage at Christmas instead of the usual £250."</li> A lack of freedom of speech within a company can feel restrictive - but it all depends on just what information has been posted on the Internet forums. Surely each person there will have had to sign some sort of non-disclosure form to prevent them from leaking information about upcoming titles? Would this not also then mean that certain restrictions should be enforced upon employees? However, obviously there are some disgruntled members of staff over at the Twycross branch, which is something that should be sorted out as speedily as possible. <center><img src="/staff/jesusraz/gclogo.jpg" style="border: 1px solid #37404D" valign="middle" alt="The ghost of Rare's past..." /> <img src="/staff/jesusraz/rarecard.jpg" style="border: 1px solid #37404D" alt="The now infamous Rare Christmas card from December 2001, complete with an XBOX, PS2, mobile phone, GameBoy & GameCube under a large tree!" /> <img src="/staff/jesusraz/xboxlogo.jpg" style="border: 1px solid #37404D" valign="middle" alt="The future of Rare..." /></center> <li>"You're joking? They've been whinging about postings on Fatbabies? Typical Rare: moan about the problems rather then try and address the issues. 'You better stop being nasty to me or I'll scream and I'll cry and I'll hold my breath until I turn purple'. Problem for me, as an Ex-Rare is I don't actually think the management (I always got on quite well with Betteridge and Bayliss) are arseholes. Really...I don't. I just think they think that because they could run a company with 30 employees....well heck then can run one with 190+. You can't. It's not your fault. No one can. You need a localised management structure. Some guy with a problem is not going to go talk to Farmer about an issue because: He earns more in a month then you do in about 5 years. He will completely disregard what you have to say...not becaue he's horrible but because the Rare way got them this far...thus the Rare way is the right way. So they won't listen, and they will tell you so. Without even trying to put it in a nice way. He (and they) will remember what you said and hold a grudge against you in the future - even if this is just paranoia, it's paranoia brought on by the current structure in place. Too rich, too quick with little thought about the company outside the director and the choosen few except in terms of "those slacking employees". It really is a pity because I still love Rare (obviously I'm a masochist), and it breaks my heart to see what is plainly in front of their faces (can't see the wood for the trees come to mind) - that the end....in one form or another, is nigh. A company best asset period, is it's employees. Not it's IP. Not it's portfollio. Not it's past history. Not it's computer controlled office. Once that's gone then your just left with fanboys, a bad reputation and being laughed at in the industry press. Oh....and of course Microsoft will replace you all. Ho hum."</li> That first comment is how I would see it as well - quit complaining about the situation and get it resolved in the calmest and quickest possible manner. The point about how the team has expanded is a very important one, as many people, myself included, believe that the same work mechanic that has proved successful right from the start can be applied further into the future, despite growth. Obviously this is a huge oversight as there are bound to be fundamental changes as the work group expands, personnel changes and the confidence of the team rises. This is something that Cubed3 will most likely have to consider itself over the next twelve months and more...! There is no room for naivety in such a cut-throat industry - but what can you do if people are obstinate and refuse to listen? <li>"Hmmm. I worked at Rare for a short while back in 1999, had to leave for "personal reasons" but I always regretted it. This thread makes me think that maybe I was lucky - the Rare of today obviously isn't the same place it was when I was there. At the same time, it's really sad to read so much negativity about a developer I absolutely LOVED right up until a few years ago. When I got my job there, it was literally a life-long dream come true. OK, so I was absolutely the total naive muppet with a lot of passion that Rare like to hire ("£12k a year? No problem!") but I reckon I'd have enjoyed the work-hard, play-hard ethos, had I stayed. What I read now is just depressing. Is there nobody there prepared to defend the place?"</li> Another case of blinded by the bright lights of Rare. People will have been roped-in by the supposed 'glitz & glamour' of the British development team that was sitting snugly under Nintendo's wing. The harshness of reality is never a good thing... <center><img src="/staff/jesusraz/dkold.jpg" style="border: 1px solid #37404D" alt="Nintendo's original look for Donkey Kong..." /> <img src="/staff/jesusraz/dk.jpg" alt="...and what he now looks like after the Rare transformation!" /></center> <li>"Riddle me this then: Why was the Lead Programmer of PD Zero (the man brought into salvage what was left of PD after the Free Rads left) basically fired from the company over 1 1/2 years ago? Was the project stalling...no seemed to be very much on time for Xmas '03 release. Was the project impressive? Looked very nice - a massive leap from PD. Was he hard to get along with? He had a reputation for speaking his mind and his staff respected him (and possibly loathed him in equal measure). Was he incompentent? Seemed to be considered one of the brightest at Rare at the time. Was he not working hard enough? Seemed to be working all the hours in the days....and weekends...and this was the beginning of the middle of the project (i.e. no one else in the company bar Starfox was in). "So why was he escorted from the building? Oh yes....I remember. The Art Director and the Designer (married to a Stamper sister) decided that they where being "restricted" too much. If you read that correctly you will instantly know this of a case of too many cooks (see if you can finish the sentence for me?). How long did it take them to replace him with a lead programmer that had finished a game? Over 1/2 a year. When can we expect PDZ now (remember I feel it WOULD have made this Xmas previously)? When the Devil has to defrost his car in the morning. So work hard and get rewarded? Or work hard for 2 years then get kicked out because you told the Designer and Art Director they can't have all their toys in the playpen at the same time?"</li> If this is true, then that is absolutely disgraceful and probably the primary reason behind the reputation Rare has for extremely delayed games. How many times have people complained that a Rare title has been put back yet again? Far too many to count! Surely the game's quality should be placed above any petty quibbles that the head staff might have with other members, otherwise things will simply not work out for the better. A poor state of affairs indeed...Many gamers bought an XBOX purely for Perfect Dark's sequel, but it looks like by the time the follow-up actually comes out, the majority of the public will have completely forgotten about it. I mean, after all, is the Nintendo 64 range of games firmly lodged in your head at the moment? I am an avid Nintendo follower and even I am rapidly losing touch with the 64-bit system, only really remembering the greats like Super Mario 64, Zelda and GoldenEye in specific detail. Just imagine what the average, 'casual gamer' is like. I doubt very much they even recall what the Nintendo 64 was! Hehe...So it looks like the chances of Perfect Dark Zero (or '2' as some are now calling it) being as huge a hit as it would have been early in the GameCube's lifespan are slim. Unless, of course, Microsoft uses it as a launch title for the XBOX 2 and pumps lots of money into its advertising budget. <center><img src="/staff/jesusraz/sabrewulf.jpg" style="border: 1px solid #37404D" alt="One of the great Rare GBA games we can expect in 2004!" /> <img src="/staff/jesusraz/kameo.jpg" style="border: 1px solid #37404D" alt="The game that was once destined to be an early GameCube release - but now XBOX exclusive" /></center> <li>"....that'll be "BM" you're talking about. I beleive he resigned after being alledgedly threatened by some people at Rare (hmm)... He was a very, very talented guy - one of the best code optimisers out there - But, boy if its the same person, what a right royal pain in the ass - sounds just like that man "Aquam". License my top secret technology.... I need more money.... etc etc. There's a couple of people at the office that worked indirectly with him - they said PDZ was absolutely jaw-dropping on the GC - and these are some smart renderer people, and now it looks like a sack of sh*t."</li> Evidence that whilst the XBOX is undoubtedly a more powerful system than the GameCube, the Nintendo machine is far easier to work with and, therefore, simpler to produce great results with...? That really is a shame for the series, if true, because whilst Perfect Dark on the N64 did not compare entirely favourably with the sublime GoldenEye, it was certainly a great step for a branching-off series. There is definitely a lot of potential, that will hopefully (for the sake of gamers and the people that originally worked on the game) be realised. <li>"But you must lay the blame at the whole PDZ team for, and indeed Rare. Lots of people write code there that no one else gets involved in, and gets checked when people leave. I can think of 5 seperate examples of this of the top of my head."</li> <li>"Can you belive the PD team are still cutting in shadows to the polygons? They are so far behind the games scene!"</li> Hmm... <hr> <legend>Staff Opinions</legend> Rare was indeed a rare company with such acclaimed titles on the Nintendo 64, but they did begin to go downhill toward the end of the console's illustrious several year history. Their first, Goldeneye was superb and will probably be the favoured title for most fans of the genre and of the James Bond franchise and a game that established the UK based company to where they were, but perhaps not where they are today. The only title currently from Rare is mediocre, and for those who have followed their portfolio from the past until now, there is a clear sign that their once profound ability to create some of the most loved games is slipping somewhat. However, the charm once found in titles from the company I do belive is found in the recent Xbox game, the style, characters and so forth is there, but the gameplay itself is pitiful, reviews mixed. Nintendo sold their shares in Rareware a while ago, it shattered fans for both the developer and Nintendo - gone where the days of Banjo, excellent shooters and so forth, but instead I think Rare are introducing their past style and charisma to a new audience. Time will tell if they shall succed. Regardless of anything, I wish them all the best. <a href="/modules/sections/index.php?op=viewarticle&artid=196" target="_blank">- Jorge Baoh [ JB, Admin :: Founder :: Editor ]</a> <hr> What is happening at Rare is a strange old business. When Nintendo sold them off it seemed like a strange decision, the company very much kept the Nintendo 64 system alive and consequently kept Nintendo afloat in the industry. It was the plucky and innovative style of Rare that was so appealing and a factor that made them one of the world's most desired developers. When they finally went to Microsoft some strange things happened at Rare, it all started to go wrong. The best people all wondered off to different projects and companies as a way of showing their displeasure as to the new way the company was being run. Apart from that nothing was heard. Until recently that is. Two forums IGN and Fatbabies have been filled with ex-Rare employees airing their displeasure about the company. It was certainly a big shock and reading all the information to be found on the forums it would seem that the company is in big trouble. The magic is gone and the games industry isn't being filled with quality Rare games anymore. I was never truly bitter about Rare leaving Nintendo, yes like many I was annoyed about it, but to wish bad fortune onto them is foolish. Rare still have the talent to survive and get back onto their feet. I just hope they can get there in time. <a href="/modules/sections/index.php?op=viewarticle&artid=195" target="_blank">- James Temperton [ tempo88 :: Sub-Admin / Editor :: Head of PR ]</a> <hr> At the time the decision to sell Rare off to the highest bidder, despite there major contribution to the life of the N64 seemed like the most bizarre of choices, and confused many gamers, eventually that confusion led to anger, and now after much time to calm down, things seemed to have turned dramatically around. Rather than the likes of Perfect Dark Zero, Conkers Bad Fur Day 2 or what have you, the XBOX has been gifted with just one title, Grabbed By The Ghoulies, a game that has received mixed reviews, and certainly not something that is living up to Rare's reputation. So what is going on? Well these newly discovered forum posts on two major websites could have the answer. Is Rare finally falling apart? Did Nintendo actually make a good business decision? Only time will tell. Perhaps it was all a big scheme between Nintendo and Rare, so Nintendo could buy them back for a fraction of a price, and reunite them to their former glory, but that seems like a bit of a long shot. All we know at the moment, is if the company do start to pick themselves back up again, it's probably not going to happen until the next generation of consoles... <a href="/userinfo.php?uid=320" target="_blank">- Karn Spydar Lee Bianco [ Spydarlee :: Writer ]</a> <hr> <legend>Rareware or Rare, Where?</legend> Anyway, this is not a Rare-bashing news article, as personally I reckon that despite many of the team members leaving to join other developers (such as Bits Corp, Zoonami and, of course, Free Radical) there is still a vast amount of talent over at Twycross - as can be seen from the excellent Banjo-Kazooie: Grunty's Revenge and the upcoming tasty-looking Sabrewulf for the GBA. But perhaps Nintendo called it right by letting the troubled developer go off to Microsoft for a quite hefty sum of money?

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Adam Riley [ Director :: Cubed3 ]

UNITE714: Weekly Prayers | Bible Verses

Sharpshot 06.01.2004#2

In the Day on the N64, Rare were reknowned for great games like Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, Zelda (for their involvement), and you could easily forgive some of the lesser titles, DK 64, Diddy Kong racing, however it seems without Nintendo's fans they can't cope. As has been previosuly said they don't know what thier target audience wants anymore, so it's lead to mass turmoil in the company. Unles Rare get Perfect Dark 2 out in 2004, I think gamers everywhere will loose interest.

Nick Cheesman < Sharpshot :: Writer :: P/Reviewer :: Hilarious Second Name >

ohm 06.01.2004#3

Call me weird but I don't think rare were that good. The only things I liked where DKC 1 and 2 and 64 and SFA. All those I loved dearly but the other were either meh or crap imo.
SNES: I liked them for DKC 1 and 2 (3 sucked)
n64: Really banjo was not nearly as good as people said..banjo, goldeneye and perfect dark were so overated imo. DK64 was cool though.
GC: SFA was cool
XBOX: BLINX and Grabbed by the ghoulies were so horrible imo. I'm really don't mind the sell off
P.S Plz don't kill me

beamrider2600 06.01.2004#4

I'm a big Rare fan - I always have been - their games have always had a certain feel to them which is great. I don't like that they belong to micro$oft now, but I still want them to succeed - and I'm still enjoying their latest games as much as ever (which are highly underrated BTW). I don't really want to believe that they are in trouble because I don't want any harm to come of them - it would be nice in some ways if micro$oft had made a mistake - but do we really want to see the end of Rare? After all, they are still making some great GBA games.

ohm 06.01.2004#5

thatBEAMperson wrote:
I'm a big Rare fan - I always have been - their games have always had a certain feel to them which is great. I don't like that they belong to micro$oft now, but I still want them to succeed - and I'm still enjoying their latest games as much as ever (which are highly underrated BTW). I don't really want to believe that they are in trouble because I don't want any harm to come of them - it would be nice in some ways if micro$oft had made a mistake - but do we really want to see the end of Rare? After all, they are still making some great GBA games.

Seriously...that is a bit overboard. And yes, i do want the end of rare.

Hedgemunkey 06.01.2004#6

I lover all of their older games - The whole DK series, Banjo etc... But if they weren't making making Nintendo anymoney then fair enough. Their newest Xbox game - Ghosts and Ghoulies por whatever, doesn't seem to have the charm they injected into their games in past years, and I think that they won'tbe as successful with Microsoft as they were with Nintendo.

nin10do 06.01.2004#7

I am a bit of a Rare fan (dulled by their move to Microsoft!) and was gutted when they moved. I have been enjoying Rare games sice I first played them, back in the good old days of SNES.

However they are going down hill. It took them three years to develope SFA, yes it had that Rare fell to it but lacked so much else. It should not take a company 3 years to develope a copy of OOT, compare the two, very similar but SFA cant even think about challenging OOT.

Now there is grabbed by the ghoulies, utter c**p. There is a definite decline and as much as I hope they pull through I cant see it happening now. I am very glad nintendo jumped ship.

Barry Lewis [ nin10do :: General Writer :: Feature Writer :: Fountain of Industry Statistics ]
"We're mentalist psychic Scots, which means we can read your mind. If you're lying, your head explodes and we laugh."

beamrider2600 06.01.2004#8

I will yet again defend Rare to balance the discussion - not because I'm necessarily 100% biased towards them but because I favour them slightly and I don't want this to be one-sided.

SFA took 3 years to produce because it was originally on N64. Rare games have not always been the most innovative, but they are pretty damn good. For instance it could be argued that Banjo Kazooie was a copy of Super Mario 64 and Donkey Kong Country was a copy of Super Mario World. In each case, Rare have added something to the genre but they didn't exactly invent anything - but thats what they're good at - improving whats there and making a really solid game. And thats what SFA is, a really solid, though not 100% original game.

As for GbtG, each person has their own opinion I suppose - but I like it, I haven't played it much since I don't own an xbox but I like it. BKGR is awesome as well - I don't think Rare have lost it at all.

Ikdown 06.01.2004#9

Although i didn't know it at the time, i have been a fan of Rare since the early days of the Spectrum with the ULTIMATE PLAY THE GAME releases.

Who could forget there games, well packaged came with cool maps etc and above all else the gameplay was to die for, and blasted the competition out of the water.

Fast forward to the SNES and they released the sublime DKC games, and the underated 2D fighter Killer Instinct. They were building a fine reputation for themselves.

Fast forward again, they saved Nintendos arse with some killer releases on the N64 you all know the games so i won't list them.We all fell in love with them adn they cemented there reputation with the Nintendo Hardcore as developers of the finest calibur.

Todays Rare is a far different beast than the one of days gone by. It seems that they treat there staff poorly, they struggle to reach a deadline(something that should have been ironed out after the long delays with the N64 games).

Although GBTG has the Rare charm(as did starfox on the Cube) it does't have the gameplay and new ideas that we are used to from such a great company.

As regards to the future well who knows, if they treat there staff as bad as we are led to believe then i wish them no luck at all, they don't deserve the support if they can't treat a fellow human with dignity and respect they deserve.

People can say what they want about Nintendo but as with Regards to selling Rare it was a shrewd move indeed, and Microsoft will be kicking themselves surely.

When you cycled by

Here began all my dreams

The saddest thing I�ve ever seen

And you never knew

How much I really liked you

Because I never even told you

Oh, and I meant to

Are you still there ?

Or ... have you moved away ?

Or have you moved away ?

nin10do 06.01.2004#10

Nail, head *bang*

IKARIWARRIOR you got it spot on.

It isn't the designers/programmers that are going down hill it is the managment not using them to the best of their abilitys! They need to stop driving their Ferraris to their holiday homes and concentrate on what Rare are renowned for - good games.

Also Killer instinct was under-rated, I still play it to this day!

Barry Lewis [ nin10do :: General Writer :: Feature Writer :: Fountain of Industry Statistics ]
"We're mentalist psychic Scots, which means we can read your mind. If you're lying, your head explodes and we laugh."

beamrider2600 06.01.2004#11

Fair points but one thing, how do you *know* that they aren't treating their staff well. Last time I checked Rare are very secretive - they don't give anything away, and infact an interesting point was pointed out in this edition of Scribes (click for link) that it is virtually impossible to find out anything about the individuals who work for Rare on the internet. Just proves how the company works.

Hence, you don't *know* anything about the managers of rare and what cars they drive - the only source is what supposed ex-members of Rare said. And. They're likely to be hoaxes from what I've read.

Continue, this is a good debate...

Ikdown 06.01.2004#12

Beam

If you read what i said you will notice "if they treat there staff as bad as we are led to believe". I didn't say they did.

But i agree it's turning into a fine debate.

[ Edited by IKARIWARRIOR on 2004/1/6 18:17 ]

When you cycled by

Here began all my dreams

The saddest thing I�ve ever seen

And you never knew

How much I really liked you

Because I never even told you

Oh, and I meant to

Are you still there ?

Or ... have you moved away ?

Or have you moved away ?

Martin 06.01.2004#13

I rented GbtG for 3 days.. it gets very repetitive. It has personality, but all that personality seems to belong to Banjo. I would even go as far as to say that on the surface it is banjo.. It seems Rare are living on past glories. You can try and dodge it as much as you want, but Conker was the last fun game to come out of rare- and without the story and characterisation Conker would have been a mess.

GAMER7.

jesusraz 06.01.2004#14

Oh dear...Conker was downright shoddy in places when it came to the gameplay! The amounts of times the jump didn't respond as quickly as it should have done drove me crazy! Also the camera had me pulling my hair out more times than I care to remeber.

BUT the (admittedly childish) humour and crude 'wit' made it a special game on the whole, and with gorgeous third generation graphics it sure was pleasure to play. It had Rare charm 'stamp'ed all over it...

I don't think I'll ever forgive Rare for the appallingly lazy DK64, though.

Smilie

Adam Riley [ Director :: Cubed3 ]

UNITE714: Weekly Prayers | Bible Verses

Martin 06.01.2004#15

thats what I was thinking the other day. If it was a banjo/mario style game I would never have bothered with it to the end. The aesthetic was an attraction Smilie

GAMER7.

nin10do 06.01.2004#16

thatBEAMperson wrote:
Fair points but one thing, how do you *know* that they aren't treating their staff well. Last time I checked Rare are very secretive - they don't give anything away, and infact an interesting point was pointed out in this edition of Scribes (click for link) that it is virtually impossible to find out anything about the individuals who work for Rare on the internet. Just proves how the company works.

Hence, you don't *know* anything about the managers of rare and what cars they drive - the only source is what supposed ex-members of Rare said. And. They're likely to be hoaxes from what I've read.

Continue, this is a good debate...

I dont!

You are completely right, I was just basing this on the article which as you pointed out is likely to be a hoax.

Still they are f*****g around at something, not concentrating on making the good games they used to. And it is supposition but I bet they do have Super Cars and Holiday Homes!

Barry Lewis [ nin10do :: General Writer :: Feature Writer :: Fountain of Industry Statistics ]
"We're mentalist psychic Scots, which means we can read your mind. If you're lying, your head explodes and we laugh."

F.O.R.M. 06.01.2004#17

I have been a big Rare fan ever since DK Country. My very first first person shooter experience was Perfect Dark. For me, the switch to Microsoft couldn't have happened at a worse time. My cousin and I were anxiously sitting down playing Perfect Dark waiting for it's sequel for the Cube one minute, and then the next minute we pick up a video game magazine and here the news. And now from what I have heard, the games Rare has released for the Xbox look good, but don't do much else than that. Nintendo fans appreciated Rare alot more than Microsoft fans do now, and now this could be the end of one of the best game companies ever. Smilie

My name is F.O.R.M. "Fan of rock music"
I am a proud American.
ROCK ON!
No were never gonna survive, unless we get a little crazy!
As stated in the songs Crazy by Seal and Thirteen By Mushroomhead.

My Runescape stats.

beamrider2600 06.01.2004#18

IKARIWARRIOR wrote:
Beam

If you read what i said you will notice "if they treat there staff as bad as we are led to believe". I didn't say they did.

But i agree it's turning into a fine debate.

[ Edited by IKARIWARRIOR on 2004/1/6 18:17 ]

I wasn't really pointing that out to you, just pointing it out in general.

Rivix 08.01.2004#19

Well concidering the games their making for xbox (ex: Kameo, Grabed by the Gholes, and Saber Whatever) i think that nintendo made the right decision. None of those games would have ever appealed to me.

Its too bad that we didnt get the rights to Perfect Dark tho...

And Rareware is a cool name.

beamrider2600 08.01.2004#20

I've been playing Perfect Dark lately actually - you know, we're talking about Rare a lot on here and whenever something like that happens, I always feel the need to go play some games. Really great game - there are times when I say I don't mind that Rare are gone - but missing out on Perfect Dark Zero is terrible... Whether PD0 will turn out to be good or not is one thing, but the thing is whether its good or not theres absolutely no chance it'll be on GameCube.

nin10do 08.01.2004#21

I was very gutted about loosing PD and Conkers, but the new releases on PD0 look rubbish. If it was up-dated with an even darker atmosphere and hardcore feel I would have missed it, but as it is I am glad to loose the game!

Which would you rather have Rare or RE series, ED, MGS:TS and the Capcom Studio (i.e VJ). I know what I would rather have, good move by Nintendo!

Barry Lewis [ nin10do :: General Writer :: Feature Writer :: Fountain of Industry Statistics ]
"We're mentalist psychic Scots, which means we can read your mind. If you're lying, your head explodes and we laugh."

Ikdown 08.01.2004#22

thatBEAMperson wrote:
I've been playing Perfect Dark lately actually - you know, we're talking about Rare a lot on here and whenever something like that happens, I always feel the need to go play some games. Really great game - there are times when I say I don't mind that Rare are gone - but missing out on Perfect Dark Zero is terrible... Whether PD0 will turn out to be good or not is one thing, but the thing is whether its good or not theres absolutely no chance it'll be on GameCube.

I agree Pefect Dark will not come to the Cube, but don't rule out something along it's lines.

Zoonami is headed up by Martin Hollis who was the head developer of Golden Eye and Perfect Dark. They are now in cahoots with Nintendo,so the big N may have the last laugh after all.

Nintendo played Microsoft like an old banjo.

When you cycled by

Here began all my dreams

The saddest thing I�ve ever seen

And you never knew

How much I really liked you

Because I never even told you

Oh, and I meant to

Are you still there ?

Or ... have you moved away ?

Or have you moved away ?

nin10do 08.01.2004#23

lol yeah. Shiggsys plays the banjo, I wonder if he has an xbox style one.

Barry Lewis [ nin10do :: General Writer :: Feature Writer :: Fountain of Industry Statistics ]
"We're mentalist psychic Scots, which means we can read your mind. If you're lying, your head explodes and we laugh."

beamrider2600 08.01.2004#24

Nothings been released at all on Perfect Dark Zero so I don't know how you can say it looks rubbish yet apart from a few peices of concept art that is, showing a cell-shaded style. Ikari, yes a lot of the original Perfect Dark team have left the company and there will be a lot of unnoficial perfect dark follow-ups - but Perfect Dark has some element of "coolness" to it thats hard to find elsware - Timesplitters 2 for instance was made by a lot of ex-rare employees, it has the gameplay, but it can't match the character and feel. Also, if Rare are good the next Perfect Dark game won't be along the same lines as Goldeneye anymore - they'll evolve the series even further and make something different - thats a big if though, if they are capable of doing this - time will tell.

nin10do 08.01.2004#25

thatBEAMperson wrote:
Nothings been released at all on Perfect Dark Zero so I don't know how you can say it looks rubbish yet apart from a few peices of concept art that is, showing a cell-shaded style. Ikari, yes a lot of the original Perfect Dark team have left the company and there will be a lot of unnoficial perfect dark follow-ups - but Perfect Dark has some element of "coolness" to it thats hard to find elsware - Timesplitters 2 for instance was made by a lot of ex-rare employees, it has the gameplay, but it can't match the character and feel. Also, if Rare are good the next Perfect Dark game won't be along the same lines as Goldeneye anymore - they'll evolve the series even further and make something different - thats a big if though, if they are capable of doing this - time will tell.

It is precisely the concept art I refer to, concept art for a game is vital. You cannot build a house without the foundation and the concept art for PD0 strongly suggests a cartoony cell shader.

The thing I loved about Perfect Dark is it was DARK. It had great atmosphere and a great look. Take away the Dark and IMO you are left with something that is far from Perfect.

Also it is a prequel, the prequel should look like the original but tell the story further. I have my 64 and PD still and switching from a cartoony PD0 to the dark and atmosheric PD on 64 will not 'feel' right IMO.

Barry Lewis [ nin10do :: General Writer :: Feature Writer :: Fountain of Industry Statistics ]
"We're mentalist psychic Scots, which means we can read your mind. If you're lying, your head explodes and we laugh."