News: Star Fox Designer Says No to Wii Version Page 2

Star Fox Designer Says No to Wii Version

04.04.2009

Star Fox Designer Says No to Wii Version on Nintendo gaming news, videos and discussion

Q-Games founder Dylan Cuthbert recently spoke Star Fox, and it's pretty certain the studio won't be involved in another game for a while yet.

Cuthbert (originally of Argonaut Software) has worked on 3 of the titles that fans consider the better games of the series: Star Fox (Wing), Star Fox 64 (Lylat Wars) and the latest adventure for Fox McCloud and friends, Star Fox Command for DS.

A Wii version should be on the way, but from the sounds of things - not from Cuthbert and his team. In an interview with G4, he reveals that personally the Wii is "a bit more of a toy" for him, and that Wii remote would be "a bit too hard to use", despite Nintendo already demonstrating it in action through Wario Ware.

He also takes a slight dig at Miyamoto with the Nintendo designer seemingly ignoring requests from fans and doing it his own way.

G4: Would you like to do another Star Fox game?

Dylan Cuthbert: (Laughter) After Command? Uhh, not yet. Maybe in another 10 years. I've made three.

G4: Well there hasn't been one for the Wii yet...

Cuthbert: The problem with that is that it'd be a big project, like 100 people on the staff. It's just not something we really want to do. I'm sure someone will make it. Maybe they'll go back to Namco.

G4: I hope not, personally. (laughs) I'd rather you did it.

Cuthbert: Well, maybe in the future, you never know. Star Fox is an interesting brand. It has a very hardcore audience. People like those furries a little too much. (laughs)

G4: Oh! People are going to love that quote. (laughs) I have to ask you, why do you think it was always difficult for developers when Fox got out of the Arwing. Fox is a pilot, but they'd always get him out of…like the tank, the tank was cool, but it still felt like an Arwing - Why do you think people wanted to take him out of being a pilot and have him run around on foot?

Cuthbert: I think that's all Miyamoto. Whenever I speak to Miyamoto about Star Fox, he says it's not meant to be just a flying, sci-fi shooting game. It's meant to be anything we want to think up. But the core fans don't want that, but Miyamoto doesn't really care about that. He wants to make what he wants to make, so he just goes ahead and gets it done.

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JoshSL 05.04.2009#26

RATGUOF said:
And statistically how much of these fans exist? Because they sound like a very few. And if I look back at TP's Reception I find mostly good reviews & it sold well too.

Statistics? Fans don't really have "statistics". If you got around forums around the release of TP though, they were definitely there. TP got good reviews, but so did GTAIV which some fans didn't like. Reviews aren't the law, and especially not sales.

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knighty 05.04.2009#27

Just go to 4chan.

Then again, listening to /v/'s general opinion on anything is general a bad idea.

RATGUOF 05.04.2009#28

SuperLink said:
RATGUOF said:
And statistically how much of these fans exist? Because they sound like a very few. And if I look back at TP's Reception I find mostly good reviews & it sold well too.
Statistics? Fans don't really have "statistics". If you got around forums around the release of TP though, they were definitely there. TP got good reviews, but so did GTAIV which some fans didn't like. Reviews aren't the law, and especially not sales.

Like science you need some form of fact that can be tested. Dismissing them because they don't fit you viewpoint is ridiculous. If I were to go around this forum I'd for the most part find the few. Not to mention I didn't find anything about Masses of Zelda Fans selling back TP because they hated it.

The market is practically democracy & to deny the statistics that most people think TP is a good game just because it wasn't for that small group of people is to completely ignores the facts just because you don't like the facts.

I sold my soul to Sony for a PS3...

Keven 05.04.2009#29

Personally, I don't care who makes it, just give me a damn Star Fox game!

The former top user was Keven! You'd probably give birth to yourself 1000 times over until you sprout wings to fly away into the fading sun, that or you'd just turn into a lesbian. Who knows @_@ - L, 12/06/09

JoshSL 05.04.2009#30

RATGUOF said:
The market is practically democracy & to deny the statistics that most people think TP is a good game just because it wasn't for that small group of people is to completely ignores the facts just because you don't like the facts.

Sure, the majority likes TP, the majority thinks it's excellent, noone's denying that, it's on the top 100 lists of "best game ever made" for many sites and magazines. But do you have any idea how many gamers there are? Millions and millions, it's not hard to imagine that in gaming communities there are people who just have to be different. Why wouldn't I like the facts? I love TP, so why would I suggest so many people hate it if it wasn't true? Like I said before, reviewers take up a miniscule proportion of gamers, and they are professional, for the most part, where as confused fans aren't. I'm not even saying they'll sell it, they probably actually liked TP but said they hated it to attract attention or just complain for no reason.

Just because you haven't seen many of these "fans", doesn't mean they're not there; because they are, like artmonkey said.

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RATGUOF 05.04.2009#31

Because you had agreed to a post that generally stated that

dartmonkey said:
To paraphrase Charlie Chaplin, 'fans' don't know what they want. They're often closed-minded and unimaginative. They usually demand more of the same, then moan when they get it. Suggestions for sequels invariably revolve around co-op and 'more' of everything.

Such statements have been used to ignore the fans even more even if it's the majority. And are generally one sided.

The minority however whether or not they hate something are not the people that are being marketed to in most cases.

Overall what I'm getting at is just because these few people hated TP doesn't mean the entire game should have been something else to appease these few.

I sold my soul to Sony for a PS3...

JoshSL 05.04.2009#32

RATGUOF said:
Overall what I\'m getting at is just because these few people hated TP doesn\'t mean the entire game should have been something else to appease these few.

I don\'t know why you ever thought I was trying to prove TP should have been something else. I was completely agreeing with artmonkey because he basically called these \"fans\" idiots who don\'t know what they want. All I was saying was that these fans exist and yet for some reason you felt you had to disprove their entire existence. We\'ve been pointlessly debating over nothing for half a page.

( Edited 05.04.2009 12:14 by SuperLink )

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RATGUOF 05.04.2009#33

SuperLink said:
I don't know why you ever thought I was trying to prove TP should have been something else. I was completely agreeing with artmonkey because he basically called these "fans" idiots who don't know what they want. All I was saying was that these fans exist and yet for some reason you felt you had to disprove their entire existence. We've been pointlessly debating over nothing for half a page.

Because I disagree with his statement & don't think he deserves any stars from me for it. Even though you thought everyone should.

dartmonkey said:
People are stupid. They cry out for a 'realistic' Zelda, and moan when they get one. Miyamoto's instinct for Wind Waker was bang-on, as it is 90% of the time. Any other developer would kill for a hit-percentage like that. Let the man make his games.

To me this just sounds like Miyamoto Fanboyism.

I sold my soul to Sony for a PS3...

JoshSL 05.04.2009#34

RATGUOF said:
To me this just sounds like Miyamoto Fanboyism.

What about it don't you agree with? To me it sounded like you loved Twilight Princess, and I said many "fans" didn't, they whined and complained.

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RATGUOF 05.04.2009#35

SuperLink said:
What about it don\'t you agree with? To me it sounded like you loved Twilight Princess, and I said many \"fans\" didn\'t, they whined and complained.

Because it\'s a statement that tries to back up something with generally nothing. If I found that TP didn\'t sell well because of that then it would be true, but that isn\'t the case at all.

( Edited 05.04.2009 12:39 by RATGUOF )

I sold my soul to Sony for a PS3...

JoshSL 05.04.2009#36

RATGUOF said:
Because it's a statement that tries to back up something with generally nothing. If I found that TP didn't sell well because of that then it would be true, but that isn't the case at all.

For the last time, sales don't and never will imply absolute quality. Many fans bought the game and were greatly disappointed, but they didn't necessarily sell it, and they still bought it because of good reviews.

Also, look at Wii Fit, please don't tell me you have no idea that so many gamers hate it? And Wii Music? And Animal Crossing Wii? And Pokémon?

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RATGUOF 05.04.2009#37

SuperLink said:
For the last time, sales don't and never will imply absolute quality. Many fans bought the game and were greatly disappointed, but they didn't necessarily sell it, and they still bought it because of good reviews.
Also, look at Wii Fit, please don't tell me you have no idea that so many gamers hate it? And Wii Music? And Animal Crossing Wii? And Pokémon?

You're just ignoring the facts. Because IF TP was a bad game it should have the same results as Driv3r.

Yes I hate all those things too. But that doesn't change the fact there fans out there that like those things. And if they did poorly (I wish they would) then we'd no longer see those. Still they like those things & I have no right to tell them to hate those things.

I sold my soul to Sony for a PS3...

JoshSL 05.04.2009#38

RATGUOF said:
Yes I hate all those things too. But that doesn\'t change the fact there fans out there that like those things. And if they did poorly (I wish they would) then we\'d no longer see those. Still they like those things & I have no right to tell them to hate those things.

Pokémon sells better than TP, and you have no right to tell TP haters not to hate it. What \"facts\" are there to ignore? Wii Fit got generally excellent reviews, as do most Pokémon games. Certainly not on the same level as Twilight Princess, but TP has haters just like the rest of them, just like GTAIV has haters even from those that loved GTAIII, and FFIX has haters even from those that liked FFVI.

( Edited 05.04.2009 13:02 by SuperLink )

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dartmonkey 05.04.2009#39

The general feeling after Twilight Princess was released (aside from the \'GC game with waggle\' debate) was that, though it\'s a solid game with some fantastic elements, the Zelda formula in its current guise is feeling tired. It stuck slavishly to the Ocarina format and could really have done with a fresh perspective. Is that not an accurate appraisal? Many who violently opposed Cel-da at Spaceworld \'01 then complained that TP wasn\'t up to snuff, when it\'s exactly the game they\'d requested.

Miyamoto makes great games and rarely panders to \'public opinion\' of what he should be doing. I like that. If he wants to make a game based on his back garden he\'ll do it. And far more often than not he produces something pretty special. He\'s proved that he knows what he\'s doing, and has earned his position. I don\'t see how saying so is fanboyism.

( Edited 05.04.2009 13:08 by dartmonkey )

Less posty, more gamey.

RATGUOF 05.04.2009#40

SuperLink said:
Pokémon sells better than TP, and you have no right to tell TP haters not to hate it. What "facts" are there to ignore? Wii Fit got generally excellent reviews, as do most Pokémon games. Certainly not on the same level as Twilight Princess, but TP has haters just like the rest of them, just like GTAIV has haters even from those that loved GTAIII, and FFIX has haters even from those that liked FFVI.

I'm saying TP haters have no right to say they should be heard over the majority. Facts such as how well TP sold (Or the fact how bad Driv3r sold). How well things sell are the facts. Yet for you, opinion should somehow trump facts.

I sold my soul to Sony for a PS3...

JoshSL 05.04.2009#41

RATGUOF said:
I'm saying TP haters have no right to say they should be heard over the majority. Facts such as how well TP sold (Or the fact how bad Driv3r sold). How well things sell are the facts. Yet for you, opinion should somehow trump facts.

No, media is opinion based, it always has been and always will be. Saying that any "quality" factor in media is fact is simply ridiculous, because people will genuinly disagree with every ounce of their being. Wii Fit has sold nearly 15million copies, FAR more than Twilight Princess' 5million. Does this indicate that Wii Fit is a better game than Twilight Princess, and that anyone disagrees has no right to say so? No, it doesn't, not in the slightest.

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RATGUOF 05.04.2009#42

SuperLink said:
No, media is opinion based, it always has been and always will be. Saying that any "quality" factor in media is fact is simply ridiculous, because people will genuinly disagree with every ounce of their being. Wii Fit has sold nearly 15million copies, FAR more than Twilight Princess' 5million. Does this indicate that Wii Fit is a better game than Twilight Princess, and that anyone disagrees has no right to say so? No, it doesn't, not in the slightest.

Which is why I have refered to Driv3r when talking about bad games. Media "Loved" it, fans bought it, hated it, Media was wrong. Wii Fit selling more than TP only proves Wii Fit has a broader audiance. Our opinion on Wii Fit however doesn't change the fact it isn't being marketed to us so why even complain?

I sold my soul to Sony for a PS3...

JoshSL 05.04.2009#43

Right, Mario Party 8, not great reviews, great sales. Nintendogs, great reviews, great sales, general gamer consensus is that it's not that great really. Final Fantasy, great reviews, great sales, loads of gamers hate it.

There are no "facts" in media preference. You can't just pretend these TP haters can't exist or disregard their opinion entirely.

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Modplan Man 05.04.2009#44

SuperLink said:
Right, Mario Party 8, not great reviews, great sales. Nintendogs, great reviews, great sales, general gamer consensus is that it\'s not that great really. Final Fantasy, great reviews, great sales, loads of gamers hate it.
There are no \"facts\" in media preference. You can\'t just pretend these TP haters can\'t exist or disregard their opinion entirely.

The point is that their in such a minority that it doesn\'t matter.

Bad word of mouth will kill game sales early.

I suggest you take a gander at this article:

http://www.bricemorrison.com/?p=267

Critics represent an even smaller minority, who are being made even more irrelevent as their own metrics are also going out of line with popular opinion.

( Edited 05.04.2009 13:45 by Modplan Man )

Marzeee 05.04.2009#45

It's a bit disappointing to hear this news, but I'm not too bothered if Dylan Cuthbert isn't working on the game, since Lylatwars was the peak of the series for me and he didn't work on that. I'm just hoping Nintendo will make one and I'll be happy.

Personally, I just hope they stick to the on-rail and all range mode style of gameplay and maybe throw in some new vehicles to give it some freshness.

RATGUOF 05.04.2009#46

SuperLink said:
There are no \"facts\" in media preference. You can\'t just pretend these TP haters can\'t exist or disregard their opinion entirely.

However I could look at the statistics & game sales then note who I can try to make a game for which in most cases would be the majority to try & get my idea across. And IF the TP haters were the majority only then would it make sense to listen to their concerns.

Marzy said:
It\'s a bit disappointing to hear this news, but I\'m not too bothered if Dylan Cuthbert isn\'t working on the game, since Lylatwars was the peak of the series for me and he didn\'t work on that. I\'m just hoping Nintendo will make one and I\'ll be happy.
Personally, I just hope they stick to the on-rail and all range mode style of gameplay and maybe throw in some new vehicles to give it some freshness.

I wouldn\'t mind if they put the original Star Fox for Snes on VC. Although I haven\'t tried SF64 or any other SF Games.

( Edited 05.04.2009 13:54 by RATGUOF )

I sold my soul to Sony for a PS3...

JoshSL 05.04.2009#47

RATGUOF said:
However I could look at the statistics & game sales then note who I can try to make a game for which in most cases would be the majority to try & get my idea across. And IF the TP haters were the majority only then would it make sense to listen to their concerns.

The point is that listening to the fans is not always a good idea, because the fans can be hypocrites, like the fans who begged for TP and then didn\'t like it. Noone\'s saying that game developers do absolutely no market research, because that\'s obviously not true, but they\'re not going to let fans dictate what they make.

Game designers are the professionals, not us, and most of Miyamoto\'s games have been very well received, so he generally knows what he\'s doing, even with Wind Waker, most Zelda fans ended up loving it despite initial criticism.

( Edited 05.04.2009 13:56 by SuperLink )

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Modplan Man 05.04.2009#48

SuperLink said:
Noone\'s saying that game developers do absolutely no market research, because that\'s obviously not true, but they\'re not going to let fans dictate what they make.
[...]
Game designers are the professionals, not us, and most of Miyamoto\'s games have been very well received, so he generally knows what he\'s doing, even with Wind Waker, most Zelda fans ended up loving it despite initial criticism.

That\'s completely backwards.

We are the customers. Their livelihood depends on making products we want. Sales are the definitive metric of that. When a sale happens, the customer is effectively saying \"I value this product at x price, I will buy it from you\". The more people that value the product therefore can be seen as the product that best fits the need.

We are not talking about what people say they want. We are talking about their behaviour. It\'s true that many people do not always truly know what they want, but that\'s only before it\'s been made. Miyamoto\'s job is to effectively find out what we actually want, and if he\'s created something that fits the need well enough, sales will be high.

What people say isn\'t always the best metric, but sales is.

( Edited 05.04.2009 14:04 by Modplan Man )

RATGUOF 05.04.2009#49

SuperLink said:
The point is that listening to the fans is not always a good idea, because the fans can be hypocrites, like the fans who begged for TP and then didn't like it.
Game designers are the professionals, not us, and most of Miyamoto's games have been very well received, so he generally knows what he's doing, even with Wind Waker, most Zelda fans ended up loving it despite initial criticism.

Modplan Man said:
The point is that their in such a minority that it doesn't matter.
Bad word of mouth will kill game sales early.
I suggest you take a gander at this article:
http://www.bricemorrison.com/?p=267
Critics represent an even smaller minority, who are being made even more irrelevant as their own metrics are also going out of line with popular opinion.

On this I agree with Modplan Man.

My main concern isn't the reviewers even though I may agree or disagree with. It's the game sales & what the majority thinks of that game they bought.

I sold my soul to Sony for a PS3...

dartmonkey 05.04.2009#50

So because a game sells well that means it wasn't criticised by people who bought it?

Less posty, more gamey.