Sonic games on the Xbox

Yup I see your point, as I said it is quite an open to interpretation type thing but I think you summed it up nicely. I prefer to have defining games as innovative games myself (did something brilliant, introduced something new, used the Hardware perfectly, perfected a series etc) but yeah for the media/general gamer it is more about recognisable games than truly good ones. And Halo certainly falls into that catagory.

And most definately the Older sonic games are more known/defining on the Megadrive than they were on the DC.

Why compare the Sonic 2D and Sonic 3D in the first place? Both series are excelent - but they are totally different. Its impossible to tell which is best. The only thing that isn't good about them is there are a few little glitches and the graphics aren't up to much - but I can certainly get over that. Super Mario 64 was revolutionary and it is the game that invented 3D platformers - and inspired almost all of todays games in some way. Without it there wouldn't be any Sonic Adventure I agree. But lets give Sonic Adventure some credit here, it was the first 3D platformer to take a significant step away from the Mario 64 formula and try something new. This era of gaming isn't as innovative as the 64-bit era - but the biggest peice of innovation we've seen so far this era (apart from possibly Four Swords Adventures and other connectivity games) - is Sonic Adventure.

I can't believe that anyone who loves video games can't see the beauty of Halo.

It implements all the ingredients of FPS better than anything i have ever played.

People who bitch on about how overrated the game is normally have some sort of agenda or fanboyish leanings, take your pick.

Whack Halo on the legendary setting and tell me it isn't one of the most exhilarating gaming experiences EVER!

The adreniline rush from the frantic on screen action is unparalleled in gaming.

Don't get me on about how pathetic the new Sonic games are - i simply won't entertain any thoughts that these poor excuses for games will define this era.

Some people need to get your heads out of the past, Sonic defined the early part of the 90's.

When people talk about Sonic today, they talk about how good it used to be.

Here are the games i think will define this generation, whether we like it or not.

Halo.
GTA Vice City.
Metroid Prime.
Manhunt.
Metal Gear Solid 2.
EYETOY.
Splinter Cell.

Also it would be a good idea if some people look up the word DEFINE.

[ Edited by IKARIWARRIOR on 2004/8/12 17:34 ]

Halo.
GTA.
Metroid Prime.
Manhunt.
Metal Gear.
EYETOY.
Splinter Cell.

Metal Gear? Thats on NES! Metal Gear Solid was on ps1, so unless you count MGS2 and MGSTTS as defining this era(!) they don't.

I would say the following games defined this era:

Sonic Adventure - as I've already explained
Grand Theft Auto 3 - gave the player more freedom than ever
Metroid Prime - again, a lot of freedom and huge worlds
Eyetoy - a new way to interact with your games, something you'd expect Nintendo to invent
Four Swords Adventures - revolutionary gameplay, just goes to show that given new inventions like connectivity what different gameplay can be created

Halo dosn't offer anything new

It's about DEFINING this era.

Metal Gear? Thats on NES! Metal Gear Solid was on ps1, so unless you count MGS2 and MGSTTS as defining this era(!) they don't

I have edited my choice for the pedantic hero.

Sonic Adventure - as I've already explained

Rubbish, your troll filled post's are far to easy to see through these days.

Maybe you need another holiday Beam?

IKARIWARRIOR wrote:
I can't believe that anyone who loves video games can't see the beauty of Halo.

It implements all the ingredients of FPS better than anything i have ever played.

People who bitch on about how overrated the game is normally have some sort of agenda or fanboyish leanings, take your pick.

Right then IKARI let's take a look at this ever so perfect game:

Frag modes were poor.
Characters were poor.
Vehicles were 'tacked on'
Level design, at times, was terrible.

Don't give me any of your 'agenda' or 'fanboy' crap, the simple thing is the game had several flaws, is far from the best XBOX game, is without doubt over-rated and should not be considered the best fps available. There are so many better fps's both old and new that are supperior to Halo. I have every faith that Halo 2 will have fixed all of the above problems and if it does I will give it most of the credit that the game deserves, bar the fact it took two attempts, but Halo really is no where near the quality we are led to believe and the hype is unfounded. Good game, yes, Brilliant, definately not!

q : where did you get the info

nin10do wrote:
Frag modes were poor.
Characters were poor.
Vehicles were 'tacked on'
Level design, at times, was terrible.

from? review or did you play the whole game?

[ Edited by Kin on 2004/8/12 18:29 ]

Frag modes were poor

Who cares, it's all about the game.

Characters were poor.

Your joking, the Halo itself was a great character, unvieling itself as the game went along. it's chock full of of great characters and creatures.

Vehicles were 'tacked on'

Rubbish, they were an integral part of the game, picking up your men to help you kill hordes of aliens has never been so much fun.

the game had several flaws,

Agreed, but non of them were the gameplay, the sublime joystick control system, the superb story line and how it unfolds, the helpfull soldiers(who are full of character, witty banter and are rather helpfull in tricky situations) who become apart of your team(a 1st in FPS)

Don't give me any of your 'agenda' or 'fanboy' crap

If the cap fits and all that.

This game got 9/10 - 10/10 in all it's reviews, it only seems that peope with an agenda or fanboyish leanings want to rip it apart.

Good game, yes, Brilliant, definately not

The game is awesome, and it's worth owning an Xbox just to play it.

[ Edited by IKARIWARRIOR on 2004/8/12 18:42 ]

1st. Yes I have played and thought it was good but was severly dissapointed also, such great hype to what was in the end a run of the mill FPS - Fact!

Ikari, I love it when you argue my case makes it so easy

The frag modes were poor, this you admit, and for any self respecting FPS the frag modes are a massive focus and in any review can drop alot of points. A bad death match lets hte game down.

You thought the characters were all cool, I thought you were my elder. Half the enemys look like they were modelled by 5 year olds and voice acted by 1 year old baby's - pathetic!

The warthog didn't handle brilliantly, yes the idea was great but the implementation wasn't perfect.

And the flaws were in the gameplay, what is multiplayer, how is it not affecting the gameplay of you constantly laugh at the stupidity of enemys in a serious FPS and controlling a vehicle - nah that doesn't effect gameplay.

From someone with great views and arguments you only let yourself down by throwing around the term fanboy, it is used by school kids to insult any other school kids.

Reviews. I could find you reviews of Driv3r that give the game 10/10 or 9/10 - doesn't mean jack mate! If you go around listening to reviews you'll make bad decision! I did with SFA, it got 9/10 & 10/10 I expected perfection and didn't get it. The EXACT same thing appliesto Halo.

It is most definately NOT the perfect game we are told about!

Well I've been off a few days so I'll add my two cents.

Halo was the best CONSOLE fps, compared to the PC fps games out there its old hat and a bit pants and thats why quite a few of us don't like it. You've got the XBOX fanboys who've never played a proper FPS before owining it and comapred to the other console games out there it was a good game and so people started proclaiming it as a AAA title when it was no better than an 85% game. Not all people who dislike Halo have an agenda, we've just got more experience with that type of game and have played far better.

Oh and what point were we not meant to compare Sonic 2D to Sonic 3D? Saying that they are two different types of games and that Sonic 3D should be compared to other 3D games is a pile of crap. Whether its 2D or 3D its a SONIC game. Are the 3D games any good? they're passable. Are they good Sonic games? Fuck no. You cant expect to be able to redefine a character just because it no longer fits in with a certain genre. Whether its 2D or 3D, Sonic is Sonic and the current games are bad SONIC games.

nin10do - Ikari never said Halo was perfect. There is no perfect game, and I find it difficult to imagine that you - a Nintendo fan and seasoned gamer - sat down to play Halo on the XBox expecting perfection. Yes it has its flaws, Yes it was overrated (in that it was the victim of hype that no game could live up to)...but the same can be said for any other game that ever achieved 'legend' status.
Metroid Prime, also on the 'defining' list, is a game that was hyped as 'perfect', yet was also riddled with plenty of flaws. Presumably, in the interests of fairness, you'll be moving from Halo to attack Metroid next.
Whatever your take on Halo, it seems futile to sit and pick holes in a game simply to prove it's not 'perfect'.

Gastrian wrote: Saying that they are two different types of games and that Sonic 3D should be compared to other 3D games is a pile of crap.

Why is it? I'll appreciate it's inevitable that new products be compared to old, but there's little logic in that. Surely the merit of a product should be decided in comparison with its contemporaries and not its ancestors. Otherwise we'd have to judge the Gamecube in comparison to the NES as they're both Nintendo machines, whereas it is surely more accurate to judge it in comparison to its contemporaries - the PS2 & XBox.

Fair doos the word perfect has been taken to precisely, I was just meaning that it was not quite the phenomenal game he was describing. Just a slight miss use of a word there! May I remind you of this, and this is what frustrates me:

I can't believe that anyone who loves video games can't see the beauty of Halo.

It implements all the ingredients of FPS better than anything i have ever played.

People who bitch on about how overrated the game is normally have some sort of agenda or fanboyish leanings, take your pick.

This highlights your post perfectly. We have definately concluded that Halo is just an overrated, run of the mill FPS yet Ikari raves about it like it's the best thing since bread came sliced. Then goes on to insinuate that everyone who thinks (realises!) that it is average by todays standards is fanboys or have an 'agenda'.

I feel fully justified in ripping the game to shreads to prove that it is far from 'perfect' (by that the perfection that many claim it to be!), I agree it is a good game but just not half as good as people claim it to be.

Halo is massive fun. I played it through from start to finish then went back for some frantic legendary aciton.

We have definately concluded that Halo is just an overrated, run of the mill FPS

Have we really concluded this. No the game is not the best FPS. Its more than a run of the mill FPS. Firstly although being an FPS it feels so much more than that and for the better . It isnt an overated FPS its an overated game altogether.

The game is amazing. It looks great it sounds great, the gameplay is sublime. In all these respects you are cutting the game a little to down their Nin10do. Its an amazing game, no its not perfect. But its not HALF the game people describe of it (and no im not trying to be pedantic with your wording)

You are not justified at all to rip Halo to shreds. You can rip the fanboys who say its the best thing in the world to shred but not the game itself even if you are trying to prove its not perfect. Its not perfect but its not FAR from it.

About Sonic's 3D outings. Of course they are going to be compared to his former games, and they are going to be compared to other better games out there. Sorry their is no excuse for games such as this, you cant just say "oh they are good if you dont compare them to others" thats a stupid excuse, games are compared so we can buy the best. And they get compared to their older counterparts to see if they are the best in their genre and field.
Even if you compare them to other games you can see they are sub par to segas work as we have come to expect from them. Even before you compare the games to anything they come of as mediocre and flawed.

No I dotn think I shall be wasting my money that is mediocre fun at the very best of times.

this topic is supposed to be about sonic

we've just got more experience with that type of game and have played far better

Please name them Gastrian, i will give you Half Life. But even Halo innovated on this game, with the squad based aspects, and the fact that they actually help you rather than hinder you.

The frag modes were poor

This is not a frag fest game, like Unreal, this mode is just an added bonus.

The main game is enough for me, and they realy weren't that poor anyway. It is a 1st person adventure, not the simple frag fest that you making it out to be.

You thought the characters were all cool, I thought you were my elder. Half the enemys look like they were modelled by 5 year olds and voice acted by 1 year old baby's - pathetic!

Please stop describing 99% of Nintendo games, if you didn't find much character in Halo, you simply haven't played it.

The warthog didn't handle brilliantly, yes the idea was great but the implementation wasn't perfect.

What i like about the Warthog is you have to learn how to use it, the 4 wheel drive aspect realy works well and is implemented superbly.

From someone with great views and arguments you only let yourself down by throwing around the term fanboy, it is used by school kids to insult any other school kids

I don't realy care, you have these attribute's in abundance - all i am doing is exposing them.

I could find you reviews of Driv3r that give the game 10/10 or 9/10

I should have said, all the respected press and websites, i would love to see some 10/10 reviews of Driv3r please provide a link.

It is most definately NOT the perfect game we are told about!

No game can ever be perfect, oh maybe Sonic DX could be,that all era defining masterpiece.

Thanks for reminding us to get back on topic Gastrian .

I learned a long time ago on cubed-3 that if a topic gets really heated but goes off topic it can stay off topic as long as it stays heated and interesting. I tend to just go with the flow now. Besides my above post contained sonic flaming.

hey i said to get back on topic as well

anyway i prefer the 2d sonics

Have we really concluded this. No the game is not the best FPS. Its more than a run of the mill FPS. Firstly although being an FPS it feels so much more than that and for the better . It isnt an overated FPS its an overated game altogether.

Read all the posts apart from Ikari's obviously unexperienced in FPS's post.

We HAVE accertained that Halo IS overrated, and it simply is just a run of the mill FPS - especially compared to the truly brilliant FPS's around - FACT!

The game is amazing. It looks great it sounds great, the gameplay is sublime. In all these respects you are cutting the game a little to down their Nin10do. Its an amazing game, no its not perfect.

If you think Halo is amazing you need to play a REAL fps, Halo is a little baby compared to them. I'll change your post to the truth:

The game is good. It looks good it sounds ok, the gameplay is good.

Nothing more nothing less, Halo is just a standard Game in a sea of Giants!

You are not justified at all to rip Halo to shreds. You can rip the fanboys who say its the best thing in the world to shred but not the game itself even if you are trying to prove its not perfect. Its not perfect but its not FAR from it.

I am more than justified to rip it to shreads - infact how hell did I rip to shreads. You'll find that from the start of this I have said it is a good game and never once said it was poor . This all started with me claiming it was overrated, everyone agrees bar Ikari then he makes that pathetic 'fanboy' allegation and everyone slams me for proving that it is just a standard FPS and does have many fundemantal flaws.

Next time I'll just say it's crap and save the bloody hassle

Raindog, if you are going to quote me, quote ALL the relevant subject matter and not just something for you to argue against, I clearly state why it was a load of crap NOT to compare 2D Sonic and 3D Sonic.

OK Ikari, Tactical Ops, Rainbow 6, Unreal Tournament 2003, Battle Field 1942 and Medal of Honour (on the PC). Now I've been kind and not included games which came later such as Unreal Tournament 2004, FarCry, Doom3, PainKiller, Call of Duty and the excellent Rainbow 6 3 on the XBOX. Oh and any modern FPS games which has indestructible vehicles should be laughed at.

[ Edited by Gastrian on 2004/8/12 20:23 ]

SONIC GAMES ON XBOX IS THE NAME OF THE TOPIC AT LEAST CHANGE IT

We have definately concluded that Halo is just an overrated

Correction, you have. I'm sure other people would like to speak for themselves.

yet Ikari raves about it like it's the best thing since bread came sliced.

I rave about it because it excites me, it makes other developers take note, it brings healthy competition to the tired genre.

It's sights and sounds are superb, it's gameplay is great, the story line and how it unfolds is totally awesome dude.

It's as good as Metroid Prime, maybe even better.

perfection that many claim it to be

I don't think you have read my posts mate, Metroid Prime isn't perfect, Halo isn't perfect but are still great games in there own right.

I agree it is a good game but just not half as good as people claim it to be.

The Xbox fans say the same thing about Metroid, it's a viscous circle.

ok halo is very good fps on consoles and average compared to pc fps can you to settle with that

Okay, Ikari you love Halo and won't change your mind. Nin10do you think Halo is bog-standard and won't change your viewpoint. Halo discussion is OVER!

*I said OVER damn it*

Back to sonic.

I would like to replay all that i said in my last post about sonic.

[ Edited by Gastrian on 2004/8/12 20:36 ]