PSP2 Discussion

Oh yeah I'm not denying that the PSP has brand power. Considering its initial price it's very impressive how well it's done on the market, and I expect the PSP2 will do similarly if not better.

However, it'll have to double its sales or more if it wants to beat the 3DS, which people will buy for the "3D" gimmick, if advertised well, and the "DS" in the console title alone.

Hey, I've just had a thought- I was thinking about how successful Brain Age was, and how important that was Nintendo, and then I thought of Brain Age 3D, and I've realized, just now, that it wouldn't work! At least, not if the console is turned 90 degrees (which was the best way to comfortably hold the DS with any of the stylus-driven titles), because of how the 3D effect is done.

I'm very curious to see how Sony's Android plans develop. They haven't announced anything beyond PS1 ports, but imagine if some of the PSP2 games are also simultaneously released on Android? At that point, it won't matter if the 3DS outsells the PSP2, not if Sony is selling millions of games on millions of Android phones.

Just a thought! edit: two thoughts actually

( Edited 28.01.2011 13:42 by MasterStyl )

Because of the 3D screen, the 3DS will combine the 'wow' sort of impression that drove the Wii, with the strong reputation the DS brand has already created. The system is frankly going to be a juggernaut.

I think the PSP2 is going to do fine for itself, but I honestly see it doing worse than the first PSP in the long run. Its (undoubtedly) going to launch at an obscene price, and it has more competition now than it did before. They don't just have to worry about Nintendo, they have to worry about Apple. Nintendo has something to differentiate themselves -- the 3D screen. What does Sony have? A bizarre touchpad on the back?

Yes it has the hardcore games that the iSystems may never have, but those will only draw in the audience they've already won. I don't see Sony growing their market share with this device.

I think Sony try to do too much with their Podtables, is it a game system? A Move player? and Internet browser? etc. The reason why the DS (wii as well) was because it had an easy to understand input method (Touch/Movement) and it was very simple with its layouts and games. An air which sony doesn't have along with its multiple SKU's at launch, something which Nintendo never do, but which sony are doing again with 3G/none 3G

I would like to see a handheld from microsoft at some point....

( Edited 29.01.2011 11:32 by Echoes221 )

Nintendo also have Pokemon, Nintendogs, New Super Mario Bro and Mario Kart. Those game will sell about a billion copies each.

I can see call of duty being popular on the ngp (with the more familiar duel sticks) Thought ot could just be as popular on 3DS too i suppose.

Jacob4000 said:
I think the PSP2 is going to do fine for itself, but I honestly see it doing worse than the first PSP in the long run. Its (undoubtedly) going to launch at an obscene price, and it has more competition now than it did before. They don't just have to worry about Nintendo, they have to worry about Apple.

First, saying that the NGP might do "worse" than the PSP implies that the PSP did poorly, which it didn't- it sold 62 million units, more than GCN (22M) and N64(33M) combined! (source: wikipedia)

Second, who cares about unit sales? I think the Gamecube proves this: it "lost" the war, but didn't we all still really enjoy it? How does unit share affect us gamers, anyway? It's kind of like cheering for a sports team.

I'd be very interested in hearing your opinions of the NGP instead of your concerns for its failure!

Nintendo has something to differentiate themselves -- the 3D screen. What does Sony have? A bizarre touchpad on the back?

Your statement sure reminds me of the DS' original criticism! I don't think there's ever been a device with touch screens front and back. Why don't we wait and see how they're used?

Echoes221 said:
I think Sony try to do too much with their Podtables, is it a game system? A Move player? and Internet browser? etc. The reason why the DS (wii as well) was because it had an easy to understand input method (Touch/Movement) and it was very simple with its layouts and games.

I would imagine that the Wii and DS sold so well because they were marketed toward a larger audience, not because they are "simple". On the contrary, the Wii and DS actually have lots of features, like the web browser you mentioned, and some are confusing, like friend codes.

By the way, have you even checked out the 3DS feature list?
http://www.nintendo.com/3ds/built-in-software/
http://www.nintendo.com/3ds/hardware

An air which sony doesn't have along with its multiple SKU's at launch, something which Nintendo never do, but which sony are doing again with 3G/none 3G

Nintendo has multiple systems. I can count four different models of Nintendo DS in existence, three of which are still being produced (lite, DSi, DSiXL). What's wrong with 3G/non-3g? If you don't want to pay for the cell networking hardware, why should you? Apple offers 3G/non-3G in two product lines (iPad, iPod Touch / iPhone), and I don't see them having any problems with sales!

edit: oh, and think of all the game boy models nintendo has made.

( Edited 10.02.2011 11:24 by MasterStyl )

MasterStyl said:

Jacob4000 said:
I think the PSP2 is going to do fine for itself, but I honestly see it doing worse than the first PSP in the long run. Its (undoubtedly) going to launch at an obscene price, and it has more competition now than it did before. They don't just have to worry about Nintendo, they have to worry about Apple.

First, saying that the NGP might do "worse" than the PSP implies that the PSP did poorly, which it didn't- it sold 62 million units, more than GCN (22M) and N64(33M) combined! (source: wikipedia)

Second, who cares about unit sales? I think the Gamecube proves this: it "lost" the war, but didn't we all still really enjoy it? How does unit share affect us gamers, anyway? It's kind of like cheering for a sports team.

I'd be very interested in hearing your opinions of the NGP instead of your concerns for its failure!

Nintendo has something to differentiate themselves -- the 3D screen. What does Sony have? A bizarre touchpad on the back?

Your statement sure reminds me of the DS' original criticism! I don't think there's ever been a device with touch screens front and back. Why don't we wait and see how they're used?

Echoes221 said:
I think Sony try to do too much with their Podtables, is it a game system? A Move player? and Internet browser? etc. The reason why the DS (wii as well) was because it had an easy to understand input method (Touch/Movement) and it was very simple with its layouts and games.

I would imagine that the Wii and DS sold so well because they were marketed toward a larger audience, not because they are "simple". On the contrary, the Wii and DS actually have lots of features, like the web browser you mentioned, and some are confusing, like friend codes.

By the way, have you even checked out the 3DS feature list?
http://www.nintendo.com/3ds/built-in-software/
http://www.nintendo.com/3ds/hardware

An air which sony doesn't have along with its multiple SKU's at launch, something which Nintendo never do, but which sony are doing again with 3G/none 3G

Nintendo has multiple systems. I can count four different models of Nintendo DS in existence, three of which are still being produced (lite, DSi, DSiXL). What's wrong with 3G/non-3g? If you don't want to pay for the cell networking hardware, why should you? Apple offers 3G/non-3G in two product lines (iPad, iPod Touch / iPhone), and I don't see them having any problems with sales!

edit: oh, and think of all the game boy models nintendo has made.

The Problem with that, is that 3-G is a major product differential, and most likely will have different coding then games, with/without, 3-G coding. The DSi isn't much of a major difference, then the DSlite, or even the DSphat. same with Gameboy Pocket, Gameboy, or Gameboy Color, they aren't a major different thing. and The NGP or whatever it will be, will have both products look the same. and consumors can be really confused about it, and it's Sony's job to be able to take care of the confusion.

( Edited 10.02.2011 23:58 by Wolvesgod )

First, saying that the NGP might do "worse" than the PSP implies that the PSP did poorly, which it didn't- it sold 62 million units, more than GCN (22M) and N64(33M) combined! (source: wikipedia)

Irrelevant. My point is that I don't see the system as expanding the userbase. I'd say the same thing if Nintendo came out with a Wii 2 tomorrow that didn't have anything to differentiate itself with.

Second, who cares about unit sales?

I'm discussing the device from a business perspective, and unit sales are a very important piece of that. Second of all, I think you should very much care about unit sales, as it can be an important factor in whether third parties bother making games for your system. (see GameCube)

Your statement sure reminds me of the DS' original criticism! I don't think there's ever been a device with touch screens front and back. Why don't we wait and see how they're used?

The DS touchscreen had many solid and easily understood uses from day one. I wouldn't say I wasn't skeptical, but at the same time I atleast saw potential. I really don't get how a backpad is supposed to draw in customers. I'm sure there will be interesting or novel uses for it, but I can't say I've ever said in a video game "if only I had a trackpad back here". The NGP's capacitive screen will likely be phenomenal, but again it not a standout feature in today's market.

I'd be very interested in hearing your opinions of the NGP instead of your concerns for its failure!

I love the raw power -- its a beast of a platform. But I'll wait to see the games (and the price).

Wolvesgod said:
The Problem with that, is that 3-G is a major product differential, and most likely will have different coding then games, with/without, 3-G coding. The DSi isn't much of a major difference, then the DSlite, or even the DSphat.

And honestly? You think 3G/Wifi-only is confusing -- but Nintendo having THREE separate models with different features, design, and names is perfectly cherry? I think a cellular radio is a VASTLY smaller difference than dual cameras and an app store (and whatever other features the DSi has over the lite).

Jacob4000 said:

I'm discussing the device from a business perspective, and unit sales are a very important piece of that. Second of all, I think you should very much care about unit sales, as it can be an important factor in whether third parties bother making games for your system. (see GameCube)

Irrelevant. My point is that I don't see the system as expanding the userbase. I'd say the same thing if Nintendo came out with a Wii 2 tomorrow that didn't have anything to differentiate itself with.

Yeah, poor sales might affect NGP 3rd party support, but I didn't mention it as the situation seemed really unlikely. There was a huge list of third parties confirmed during the NGP announcement keynote; even in a hypothetical scenario where the NGP is completely ignored, Sony's got a bunch of first party IPs that I'd love to play (incidentally, I liked my Gamecube for its first party stuff). But it won't come to that, look at Playstation's history (see PS2).

Your statement sure reminds me of the DS' original criticism! I don't think there's ever been a device with touch screens front and back. Why don't we wait and see how they're used?

The DS touchscreen had many solid and easily understood uses from day one. I wouldn't say I wasn't skeptical, but at the same time I atleast saw potential. I really don't get how a backpad is supposed to draw in customers.

I'm sure there will be interesting or novel uses for it, but I can't say I've ever said in a video game "if only I had a trackpad back here". The NGP's capacitive screen will likely be phenomenal, but again it not a standout feature in today's market.

And in some ways the 3DS screens stand out - negatively. Especially its bottom screen, which is low resolution (QVGA is so 2005) and resistive (so 1995!). The bottom screen will compare even worse as more smartphones gain high density capacitive displays. I have concerns about the top screen: (1) how narrow is the viewing angle (and would a bumpy car ride create interference), and (2) is the effect also distance dependent (will that make for uncomfortable arms)? But I cannot wait to see the 3D effect firsthand. I almost can't believe that it really exists right now. It seems too good to be true!

I'd be very interested in hearing your opinions of the NGP instead of your concerns for its failure!

I love the raw power -- its a beast of a platform. But I'll wait to see the games (and the price).

edit- quote trees aren't working. sorry for the wall of text, it is 3 AM.



( Edited 11.02.2011 13:02 by MasterStyl )

I think the PSP2 will do very well. The touch pad, touch screen, dual sticks, trophy and friend support are great additions.

The PSP2 is a much bigger leap from the PSP than the 3DS is from the DS.

The PSP struggled to compete because of price and because all it did was play games like normal with no unique or new method of play. The touch screen will allow it to have DS type interaction within games. The touch pad too could be very useful and innovative if used right. With the second stick, FPS games will do great on the device. Just imagine a brand as big as Call of Duty getting a full proper game on par with the HD consoles on a portable system.

The main deterrent for buyers at first will be the price. Sony need to get that right.

I think the gap between the PSP2 and 3DS will be much smaller than what we've seen with the PSP and DS.

I like how the PSP2 also has two cameras and also supports Augmented Reality games. AR looks great on both the 3DS and PSP2 and something I hope to see used more on both.

( Edited 11.02.2011 13:27 by Ifrit XXII )

Jacob4000 said:

First, saying that the NGP might do "worse" than the PSP implies that the PSP did poorly, which it didn't- it sold 62 million units, more than GCN (22M) and N64(33M) combined! (source: wikipedia)

Irrelevant. My point is that I don't see the system as expanding the userbase. I'd say the same thing if Nintendo came out with a Wii 2 tomorrow that didn't have anything to differentiate itself with.

Second, who cares about unit sales?

I'm discussing the device from a business perspective, and unit sales are a very important piece of that. Second of all, I think you should very much care about unit sales, as it can be an important factor in whether third parties bother making games for your system. (see GameCube)

Your statement sure reminds me of the DS' original criticism! I don't think there's ever been a device with touch screens front and back. Why don't we wait and see how they're used?

The DS touchscreen had many solid and easily understood uses from day one. I wouldn't say I wasn't skeptical, but at the same time I atleast saw potential. I really don't get how a backpad is supposed to draw in customers. I'm sure there will be interesting or novel uses for it, but I can't say I've ever said in a video game "if only I had a trackpad back here". The NGP's capacitive screen will likely be phenomenal, but again it not a standout feature in today's market.

I'd be very interested in hearing your opinions of the NGP instead of your concerns for its failure!

I love the raw power -- its a beast of a platform. But I'll wait to see the games (and the price).

Exactly, that's what I agree with: the NGP doesn't have something, to draw in customers, either. It doesn't, there's

MasterStyl said:

Wolvesgod said:
The Problem with that, is that 3-G is a major product differential, and most likely will have different coding then games, with/without, 3-G coding. The DSi isn't much of a major difference, then the DSlite, or even the DSphat.

I'm not a programmer, (and I'm very certain you aren't either!) but I'm sure that the games won't need to worry about using 3G or not. Look at the iPad: you use the exact same apps for on the cellular or wi-fi only models; the only difference is that the cellular iPad lets you go online anywhere, Apple's iOS handles all of the tricky fiddly networking bits through API calls. Same for the NGP.

And honestly? You think 3G/Wifi-only is confusing -- but Nintendo having THREE separate models with different features, design, and names is perfectly cherry? I think a cellular radio is a VASTLY smaller difference than dual cameras and an app store (and whatever other features the DSi has over the lite).

Jacob4000 said:

I'm discussing the device from a business perspective, and unit sales are a very important piece of that. Second of all, I think you should very much care about unit sales, as it can be an important factor in whether third parties bother making games for your system. (see GameCube)

Irrelevant. My point is that I don't see the system as expanding the userbase. I'd say the same thing if Nintendo came out with a Wii 2 tomorrow that didn't have anything to differentiate itself with.

Fine, I was looking at it from a consumer perspective. I don't own Sony stock, I don't care what "wins". I win when there's cool games (on any platform)! Furthermore, as "gamers", Nintendo's marketshare should mean even less to you and me. What percentage of new Nintendo owners do you think play Metroid or Zelda? That may not be scientific at all, but I think it is obvious that the majority of Nintendo's market cares little about the sort of games the average Cubed3 member does.

Yeah, poor sales might affect NGP 3rd party support, but I didn't mention it as the situation seemed really unlikely. There was a huge list of third parties confirmed during the NGP announcement keynote; even in a hypothetical scenario where the NGP is completely ignored, Sony's got a bunch of first party IPs that I'd love to play (incidentally, I liked my Gamecube for its first party stuff). But it won't come to that, look at Playstation's history (see PS2).

Your statement sure reminds me of the DS' original criticism! I don't think there's ever been a device with touch screens front and back. Why don't we wait and see how they're used?

The DS touchscreen had many solid and easily understood uses from day one. I wouldn't say I wasn't skeptical, but at the same time I atleast saw potential. I really don't get how a backpad is supposed to draw in customers.

I was thinking more of its frequently-mocked dual screens. And my quote was in regards to how you were earlier questioning what "Sony have [to differentiate itself]? A bizarre touchpad on the back?". I didn't mean to imply that the backpad exclusively would "draw in customers".

I'm sure there will be interesting or novel uses for it, but I can't say I've ever said in a video game "if only I had a trackpad back here". The NGP's capacitive screen will likely be phenomenal, but again it not a standout feature in today's market.

I think of the potential of a backpad whenever I'm iPhone "gaming" with my fingers blocking and smudging up its beautiful screen. Sony have also invented a new pinching gesture, thumb on front pad and index on backpad, which I think is marvelous.

And in some ways the 3DS screens stand out - negatively. Especially its bottom screen, which is low resolution (QVGA is so 2005) and resistive (so 1995!). The bottom screen will compare even worse as more smartphones gain high density capacitive displays. I have concerns about the top screen: (1) how narrow is the viewing angle (and would a bumpy car ride create interference), and (2) is the effect also distance dependent (will that make for uncomfortable arms)? But I cannot wait to see the 3D effect firsthand. I almost can't believe that it really exists right now. It seems too good to be true!

I'd be very interested in hearing your opinions of the NGP instead of your concerns for its failure!

I love the raw power -- its a beast of a platform. But I'll wait to see the games (and the price).

If I'm honest, I wish this is the route Nintendo would've taken. Can you imagine a new Zelda or Metroid on NGP-equivilant hardware? I'm nostalgic for the "old" Nintendo- back when they were boasting about the GameCube's ability to simultaneously render 128 Marios on a spinning pizza. Nintendo recognized the DS as a departure from its traditional games, just look at how the DS was originally a "third pillar" to the 'cube and 'boy. I'm disappointed that they actually took the departure. I see the NGP with the old fight as its legacy. What appeals to me is how NGP is the actualization of a true portable console-- I think that will appeal to many others too.

edit- quote trees aren't working. sorry for the wall of text, it is 3 AM.

MasterStyl said:

Wolvesgod said:
The Problem with that, is that 3-G is a major product differential, and most likely will have different coding then games, with/without, 3-G coding. The DSi isn't much of a major difference, then the DSlite, or even the DSphat.

I'm not a programmer, (and I'm very certain you aren't either!) but I'm sure that the games won't need to worry about using 3G or not. Look at the iPad: you use the exact same apps for on the cellular or wi-fi only models; the only difference is that the cellular iPad lets you go online anywhere, Apple's iOS handles all of the tricky fiddly networking bits through API calls. Same for the NGP.

And honestly? You think 3G/Wifi-only is confusing -- but Nintendo having THREE separate models with different features, design, and names is perfectly cherry? I think a cellular radio is a VASTLY smaller difference than dual cameras and an app store (and whatever other features the DSi has over the lite).

Jacob4000 said:

I'm discussing the device from a business perspective, and unit sales are a very important piece of that. Second of all, I think you should very much care about unit sales, as it can be an important factor in whether third parties bother making games for your system. (see GameCube)

Irrelevant. My point is that I don't see the system as expanding the userbase. I'd say the same thing if Nintendo came out with a Wii 2 tomorrow that didn't have anything to differentiate itself with.

Fine, I was looking at it from a consumer perspective. I don't own Sony stock, I don't care what "wins". I win when there's cool games (on any platform)! Furthermore, as "gamers", Nintendo's marketshare should mean even less to you and me. What percentage of new Nintendo owners do you think play Metroid or Zelda? That may not be scientific at all, but I think it is obvious that the majority of Nintendo's market cares little about the sort of games the average Cubed3 member does.

Yeah, poor sales might affect NGP 3rd party support, but I didn't mention it as the situation seemed really unlikely. There was a huge list of third parties confirmed during the NGP announcement keynote; even in a hypothetical scenario where the NGP is completely ignored, Sony's got a bunch of first party IPs that I'd love to play (incidentally, I liked my Gamecube for its first party stuff). But it won't come to that, look at Playstation's history (see PS2).

Your statement sure reminds me of the DS' original criticism! I don't think there's ever been a device with touch screens front and back. Why don't we wait and see how they're used?

The DS touchscreen had many solid and easily understood uses from day one. I wouldn't say I wasn't skeptical, but at the same time I atleast saw potential. I really don't get how a backpad is supposed to draw in customers.

I was thinking more of its frequently-mocked dual screens. And my quote was in regards to how you were earlier questioning what "Sony have [to differentiate itself]? A bizarre touchpad on the back?". I didn't mean to imply that the backpad exclusively would "draw in customers".

I'm sure there will be interesting or novel uses for it, but I can't say I've ever said in a video game "if only I had a trackpad back here". The NGP's capacitive screen will likely be phenomenal, but again it not a standout feature in today's market.

I think of the potential of a backpad whenever I'm iPhone "gaming" with my fingers blocking and smudging up its beautiful screen. Sony have also invented a new pinching gesture, thumb on front pad and index on backpad, which I think is marvelous.

And in some ways the 3DS screens stand out - negatively. Especially its bottom screen, which is low resolution (QVGA is so 2005) and resistive (so 1995!). The bottom screen will compare even worse as more smartphones gain high density capacitive displays. I have concerns about the top screen: (1) how narrow is the viewing angle (and would a bumpy car ride create interference), and (2) is the effect also distance dependent (will that make for uncomfortable arms)? But I cannot wait to see the 3D effect firsthand. I almost can't believe that it really exists right now. It seems too good to be true!

I'd be very interested in hearing your opinions of the NGP instead of your concerns for its failure!

I love the raw power -- its a beast of a platform. But I'll wait to see the games (and the price).

If I'm honest, I wish this is the route Nintendo would've taken. Can you imagine a new Zelda or Metroid on NGP-equivilant hardware? I'm nostalgic for the "old" Nintendo- back when they were boasting about the GameCube's ability to simultaneously render 128 Marios on a spinning pizza. Nintendo recognized the DS as a departure from its traditional games, just look at how the DS was originally a "third pillar" to the 'cube and 'boy. I'm disappointed that they actually took the departure. I see the NGP with the old fight as its legacy. What appeals to me is how NGP is the actualization of a true portable console-- I think that will appeal to many others too.

edit- quote trees aren't working. sorry for the wall of text, it is 3 AM.

The product had different names, what differences will the NGP have differently, who knows, I might be talking about the one with 3G or the one without 3G, or even both? and I never once said I was a programmer, I'm just looking at how the game will connect to the internet, because isn't 3G using satelite and faster then Wi-Fi? so it will have some speed issues and possibly wont even be able to connect if there's no satelites around. especially where I live, there is no Cricket tower, out here. and my point is, if they go with a single partnership, there is no chance in hell it will be a world wide product.

( Edited 11.02.2011 16:09 by Wolvesgod )

All a consumer has to decide is if they want to pay extra for 3G access or not. AFAIK, 3G uses cell towers, not satellites, and has theoretical speeds that are much slower than wifi. You're confused: it isn't 3G OR wifi; there is 3G in *addition* to wifi.

If you think that there isn't cell coverage where you live, then you would probably save money and purchase the wifi-only NGP. I really don't think it is hard!

( Edited 11.02.2011 22:15 by MasterStyl )

MasterStyl said:
All a consumer has to decide is if they want to pay extra for 3G access or not. AFAIK, 3G uses cell towers, not satellites, and has theoretical speeds that are much slower than wifi. You're confused: it isn't 3G OR wifi; there is 3G in *addition* to wifi.

If you think that there isn't cell coverage where you live, then you would probably save money and purchase the wifi-only NGP. I really don't think it is hard!

MasterStyl said:
All a consumer has to decide is if they want to pay extra for 3G access or not. AFAIK, 3G uses cell towers, not satellites, and has theoretical speeds that are much slower than wifi. You're confused: it isn't 3G OR wifi; there is 3G in *addition* to wifi.

If you think that there isn't cell coverage where you live, then you would probably save money and purchase the wifi-only NGP. I really don't think it is hard!

maybe you don't understand what I'm saying.

There will be no possible way, to know the difference between which is which. and a parent buying their kids a system, will have maybe a slim chance on know what system they are grabbing. and if the parent does give their info un-knowing what they are paying for, will Sony re-fund what the parent is un-knowingly pay for?

Sony will need to put information about it, someplace where parents actually look, when selling the NGP, if they use two different models. and that's what's different from Nintendo's past handheld, they won't released at the same time.

Apple have two versions of the iPad, clearly marked on the boxes when you buy it. It is also likely that you would need a phone contract/ SIM card, so the 3G may only be sold by phone operators who have capability of signing you to a contract.

Wolvesgod said:

maybe you don't understand what I'm saying.

There will be no possible way, to know the difference between which is which. and a parent buying their kids a system, will have maybe a slim chance on know what system they are grabbing. and if the parent does give their info un-knowing what they are paying for, will Sony re-fund what the parent is un-knowingly pay for?

Sony will need to put information about it, someplace where parents actually look, when selling the NGP, if they use two different models. and that's what's different from Nintendo's past handheld, they won't released at the same time.

Are there really going to be parents who would buy their kids a NGP? The 3DS is already pushing it but the NGP? I'd like to have those parents.

Echoes221 said:

Its not just that though Styl, its the fact that you will have a monthly charge on top of all your other bills as effectively you need another phone contract for said 3G.

I do doubt that the NGP would require a contract- It's likely that they'll strike a contract-free deal similar to the iPad's. Or imagine something even crazier: what if they do the Kindle/Nook route and give free 3G access? Or, perhaps more realistically, what if 3G access is included or subsidized with Playstation Plus? What if 3G access is tiered- you can logon to PSN for free, to purchase DLC and such, but need to pay for data-intensive applications like online gaming or web browsing?

Also, is 3G really suited to gaming on the go? I don't think so, more for browsing so its pretty much pointless from a gaming standpoint.

The NGP is apparently well integrated with Playstation Network, so I think ubiquitous net access would be quite useful. Online gaming is an obvious application. An MMO, perhaps? DLC access?

Also, the PSP has a feature called Remote Play that lets you access your PS3, but it's currently limited to Wi-fi hotspots. Imagine having access to your PS3 from literally nearly anywhere - well, don't you know that the PS3 "Only Does Everything"?

There would be many points to 3G access on the NGP; just because you haven't thought of any does not make it pointless!

Wolvesgod said:

maybe you don't understand what I'm saying.

There will be no possible way, to know the difference between which is which. and a parent buying their kids a system, will have maybe a slim chance on know what system they are grabbing. and if the parent does give their info un-knowing what they are paying for, will Sony re-fund what the parent is un-knowingly pay for?

Sony will need to put information about it, someplace where parents actually look, when selling the NGP, if they use two different models. and that's what's different from Nintendo's past handheld, they won't released at the same time.

I think I perfectly understand what your are saying. You think that having a separate 3G version will be too confusing for most consumers. I've thought about this and the only conclusion I could arrive to was that you're the one who doesn't understand.

I can't tell if "There will be no possible way, to know the difference between which is which" is something you honestly think. Try something, right now: click on the below link to the Apple Store, and pretend to purchase an iPad. If afterwards you are still confused, I suggest that you definitely DO NOT purchase an NGP-- in fact I might recommend that you do not go shopping for anything, ever.

http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_ipad/family/ipad?aid=AIC-WWW-NAUS-K2-BUYNOW-IPAD-INDEX&cp=BUYNOW-IPAD-INDEX

Thanks for the discussion-- I'm done arguing with you.

edit: I looked at your other thread, and it seems like you might not actually know what the benefits of 3G are, or how 3G is different from Wi-Fi. A simple explanation: 3G gets you online from anywhere there is cell coverage, whereas Wi-Fi access is limited to a hot spot. 3G means Internet anywhere within a city (or country, practically speaking); Wi-fi means Internet within a home or coffee shop.

But if you really didn't know what 3G is, maybe you should've asked before saying stuff like "3-G is a major product differential, and most likely will have different coding then games, with/without, 3-G coding".

( Edited 12.02.2011 11:59 by keith )

I know, what I'm doing, i'm talking about a parent who wont be tech savy.

I had a friend from school, who still didn't even had a TV in the living room.

and with my step-father has a son who doesn't have a TV in their house, either. and there are other people who still doesn't know the difference between a GameBoy colour with a Nintendo DS. so really what you said is quite harsh to suspect that I didn't know the difference.

snf I know what 3G is, I just didn't know if there was a huge difference between the two. that is all, and apparently there is enough of a difference to even wonder why people will spend money just to download small game information for a monthly bill.

( Edited 12.02.2011 14:44 by Wolvesgod )

I don't know what the situation in Europe is, but 3G still isn't reliable enough -- atleast in the States -- for online gaming. Downloading applications and games where its okay for things to start and stop, yes, but actual online playing? Not yet.

People have enough lag when they're connected to broadband through ethernet. I can't imagine how bad it would be through 3G. I think you're being a bit optimistic if you're expecting to get some online Uncharted going in the back of a taxi.

3G in the UK is ALWAYS contracted, because its all owned by the Major mobile network providers (Orange, T-mobile, Vodaphone, 3 etc). We'll probably see similar deals like with the iPad (which I might add isn't contract free over here), but its still an extra expense. Even the Kindle etc isn't free with 3G over here (Do we get 3G ones?). To that end Keith I'm right, regardless of logging onto your PSN, that should be standard, but the actual use of the 3G will have to be let out by the major Networks unless sony can somehow either a. build a load of transmission towers, or b. Work out some epic deal with the current providers, both of those look fairly slim. Apple left the 3G up to the providers over here.

And I don't care what anyone says, 3G is really not suited to gaming on the go in the UK(say shooters or RTS etc) its stupidly slow with packets of data having to first be coded, travelling through the air (Considerably slower than Wifi) and travelling through phonlines/satellites etc and then vice versa. The ping would be unf*believable.

Then there's the fact that the 3G is really spotty (Its not just where there is Cell coverage unfortunately), it bounces around between 3G (fastest) HSDPA,GPRS, its not particularly stable if you are moving around a lot in the UK,anyone with a Smartphone in the UK can attest to that.

( Edited 13.02.2011 01:27 by Echoes221 )

The kindle does come with free 3G in the uk, but data for that isn't constant up/down that online gaming would need.

I would guess the 3G in the NGP would be used to sync data with servers/leaderboards, and may download apps up to a certain size, like you can with an iphone

( Edited 13.02.2011 02:26 by Lrrr )

I didn't mention that I live on an island (in Hawaii). 3G on my iPhone has been excellent but, now that I think about it, it probably takes one and a half cell towers to saturate every cubic inch of space with those beautiful internet-providing radio waves, since the place is so small.

I didn't think of latency issues! Duh. I don't actually game online much. So today I did a few speed tests whilst driving downtown. My ping (to a nearby honolulu server called lava.net) went from 480 to 610 ms. Or .5 to .6 seconds.

You're completely right, that wouldn't work for CoD at all! But when I play against opponents in Cro Mag Rally, I really don't notice it. My theory: iPhone games are already so imprecise (with their stupid tilty controls) that the half second actually wasn't noticeable. (Also in Cro Mag all the cars feel like they're on ice skates coated in butter.)

Hmm, I agree that they're going to have a hard time pushing the 3G, especially since by the end of 2011 likely nearly every smartphone will have hotspot-creation capabilities. You're right, it also looks like the most "useful" feature of 3G would be trophy sync and PSN store access. And maybe facebook sync so that all your friends can know how cool you are with your NGP. Good thing there is a 3G-free model.

Echos, I didn't know that there are only contracted cell plans in the UK. Out of curiosity: do you have pre-paid plans? what about the little disposable phones you get from gas stations?

( Edited 13.02.2011 06:47 by keith )

No pre-paid plans/disposable phones, its either all pay as you go ( a top up phone) or a contract, the cheapest being a round ��£15 with limited features and phone. My own one personally is ��£20 a month with unlimited texts, 400 mins and 500Mb of download data for my HTC. And thats pretty good. All the service providers last year suddenly decided to remove their 'unlimited' data services too.

Don't forget, that ping test was to a nearby server, when you are doing peer to peer gaming (which the majority of it is on console, very rarely server based) that ping will increase substantially based on where they are in the world and how good their connection is.

In all honesty, I think UK is going to get mucked over with the charge of the NGP compared to USA, its going to be (this is my guess) around the �£290-400 mark. I know that is a big variance, but you must remember that somce phones go for that price, take the new google nexus s. The tech that is in the NGP will be costly, two quad core processors (CPU/GPU) two capacitive touch pannels, OLED screen (which are really expensive) and all the other bells and whistles. Putting a contract on top of that seems pretty farcical, you may as well if you are doing that just have the wifi version and an ipad/smartphone.

( Edited 13.02.2011 11:26 by Echoes221 )

Handheld gaming is going to phones. They're getting powerful enough to render dedicated portable gaming devices rather pointless. iPhone apps and the like outsell DS games. This will only grow. In the future I don't think there will be any dedicated handheld gaming consoles. What with the capability of phones picking up, people just don't need the portable consoles.

This is just my opinion. It's really been years since I've seen anyone out and about with an NDS or PSP. I see people out and about using phone apps (not all o which are games, granted) pretty much every single day. Maybe people feel less silly pulling a phone out than something big red and plasticy with 'Nintendo' on it. If you're 21+ and not 'a gamer' anyway.

I think the area where phones will struggle matching games consoles at their own forte is the interface. We now have touchscreens as a standard on phone units, but that was only ever part of the DS formula. This relegates phone games to either simple point-n-click formula, or over-ambitious titles that assume that phone keypads are as good as gamepads for games.

What I think we'll see in the future is mobile/portable games which are very simple (in terms of how they're played), with complex gaming left for home consoles/PCs. Yes the 3DS has 3D, but I just don't see that as being much more than a cool feature. The 3DS movies thing made me laugh. Who on Earth wants to watch a film in such low resolution on such a tiny screen? Even if it is in 3D? 400x240 per eye.. lol. VHS tapes were higher resolution than that!

Sorry if this has been said, or if this is incredibly ignorant of me, but surely if you 'accidentally' buy a console with 3G you can just turn it off? Or not use it?

As for phones replacing games consoles, I dunno. This last gen has easily been the highest selling for handheld consoles, and you could argue that phone gaming is a different market, for people that wouldn't buy a handheld console anyway. In fact, it may even lead people to handheld gaming. I think it's far too early to say that it will usurp handhelds.