Nostalgia

I know this can be a pretty controversial/tender subject, but I want debate and discussion, not argument. If you wanna say something, say it without anything personal.

So; nostalgia. You all know the sayings. Nostalgia makes the heart grow fonder etc. But what do you think about nostalgia? Do you think we have a potentially clouded love for ages gone by, or do you think that you would feel no different if you had played \"those games\" today?

Of course nostalgia applies to everything, but I guess this thread\'s focus is gaming. It can be applied to multiple series\', including Mario, Zelda, Final Fantasy, Phantasy Star, Alex Kidd, Pokémon, Disney games (you know the ones) and even stuff like PacMan. The list goes on and on.

A few questions to get the ball rolling if you\'re stuck on where to start.

- What do you think about remakes or reimaginings?
- Which series\' have gotten stronger or weaker over the last 20 years or so?
- Have you tried a \"retro\" game people seem to love so much? What were your own views on your experience?

Try not to let any good vets die out there.

( Edited 07.06.2009 16:33 by SuperLink )

The only nostalgia I have is for my Megadrive (game wise) When everyone had their PSones and to an extent PS2's I was still playing on my mega drive that was given to me.
Most nostalgic games Have to be on the system was Mortal Kombat, and Road Rash, oh with a little sonic, sonic 2 and sonic and knuckles thrown in there for good measure.
I love the titles, I haven't played a 1 vs 1 fighter that I have found as addictive as the original Mortal kombat ever.And I have yet found anybody to beat me at it.
It was the console that just kept going and I don't buy them on wii ware, I rip out the megadrive and keep playing the old classics the way they where meant to

As far as games getting weaker, My first one off the bat would have to be sonic (sorry) as it's one of the first games I had and played on the mega drive and it's suffered greatly other than Sonic Rush which was a breath of fresh air for the franchise.
Mortal Kombat has gotten weak in some areas such as the loss of Main characters in some of the games, Raden was gone in one of the games (my fave character) and that kind of defeats the point of mortal kombat and keeping the nostalgia of the series + Over complicating the fighting systems (e.g. snake style, kung fu style etc) and the addition of way, way way too many characters.

Remakes are good, but they somehow lose the nostalgia of the old games. It's the same game, and yet its a completely differnt game in terms of graphics, Sounds, Character models, Controls etc etc, it loses the charm that makes nostalgia what it is.

When I want to try a retro game, I usually don't because I have already played it to death on My mega Drive or round at my freinds house on his N64 or my NES/SNES (sadly they both died ) Because I didn't have any next gen consoles untill the Gamecube, I had plenty of time to get my hands on old classics at car boot sales and play them in the time it took 2 gens to pass by.

Those where the days, Now I want to get my megadrive and Game gear and play them

Show Spoiler

Sonic has to be one of the series\' that is getting weaker undeniably, however I meant series\' that are still delivering strong titles, strong titles that are often put to one side or slated in favour of older games (case in point, Mario, Zelda, Pokémon, Final Fantasy).

Personally both my MegaDrive and N64 nostalgia are now very weak. I still have good memories of first playing games like Sonic, Mario 64, and Ocarina of Time, and I regret the fact that I will never be able to play them \"for the first time\" ever again. But for me those memories have been nearly drowned by what I feel are superior recent gens. Instead I am playing games like Okami and Super Mario Galaxy for the first time, and the only nostalgic \"longing\" feelings I ever get are Sonic related.

( Edited 07.06.2009 18:43 by SuperLink )

Super Mario 64. I played the N64 version for the first time last year and found it to be average and not as good as everyone makes it out to be. I'm guessing it's one of those games you have to experience at the time of release. Out of all the main Mario games, Super Mario 64 is the worst IMO. Still a good game though.

wAyNe - sTaRT said:
Super Mario 64. I played the N64 version for the first time last year and found it to be average and not as good as everyone makes it out to be. I'm guessing it's one of those games you have to experience at the time of release. Out of all the main Mario games, Super Mario 64 is the worst IMO. Still a good game though.

I'd completely disagree with Sonic losing anything over time. Specifically 1 and 2, but also 3&K. They're still exhilarating to play and live up to my nostalgic feelings. The fact they still feel so good is one of the reasons I have such disdain for post-2000 Sonic games, but let's not go into that.

I replayed Castle of Illusion a little while back. It's still fantastic.

Banjo-Kazooie holds up brilliantly.

A great game doesn't need context to be good. If you have to keep telling yourself that 'in 1989 this was amazing' then it's just not very good. Crude graphics and sound effects can't disguise a compelling game.

In terms of remakes, I think they need to add something fundamental to the original. By that I mean it must offer something to enhance the experience other than a cosmetic upgrade, otherwise you may as well just rerelease the original. Portability is a good reason to upgrade - I probably would never have got round to trying Final Fantasy 4 if I hadn't been able to play it on the bus. Likewise I'll give Chrono Trigger a whirl at some point.

I'm still slogging through Final Fantasy 4. It's perfectly fine, but hasn't grabbed me at all. Certainly not to the extent that I'd have thought they could spin another ten sequels out of it, plus the myriad spin-offs. I've got zero inclination to play any of them (except XII, simply because it supposedly ditches much of the framework). I'm just not one for a grind. Another 'retro' game I feel I should try is Metal Gear Solid, but I'm almost certain it's not going to be my thing. I'll get round to it at some point.

I'm half-way through Deus-Ex. Visually its a dog, but developers today could still learn so much from the subtle and brilliant interaction it affords the player. It makes you feel like a detective.

- What do you think about remakes or reimaginings?
- Which series' have gotten stronger or weaker over the last 20 years or so?
- Have you tried a "retro" game people seem to love so much? What were your own views on your experience?

I think remakes are ok if for the right reasons. One example I think of is Sonic Adventure 2 Battle for the GC. Although I did play it on Dreamcast it gave other people the opportunity to experience it.

I also liked the Mario advance remakes because I could play the old Mario games on the go. Some remakes just shouldn't be remade if it is pointless...I can't think of any right now, but there are SOME!!!

-Sonic has definitely gotten weaker. Crash Bandicoot in my opinion has gotten weaker. He just doesn't interest me anymore. I wouldn't say megaman well . . . because megaman is awesome. I want more 3D Kirby games...but no he hasn't gotten weaker.

hah! Mario Party! Thats what I think has gotten weaker since Mario Party 3...what are they on like 8 now? I refuse to play another Mario Party anything unless its with some friends and they want to play it.

- Retro. . .by retro do you mean the original or the remake of the original? I've played an old Metroid game that people were talking about...it was ok. I probably would've thought it was cooler if I had played it when it actually came out, but because I had picked it up three years ago(?) I didn't think too much of it..

Another retro game I could think about that I thought was just ok was Kid Icarus. I played the retro version on Brawl and I was neither impressed nor disappointed.

I can think of a retro game that got me frustrated (in a good way) and kept me coming back for more was Ice Climbers. I'm a bit surprised that I reacted that way. The game was very simple, yet progressively got harder. I didn't like the way the PoPo jumped. I still had a bit of fun and wouldn't mind seeing a 3D remake or seeing that franchise being taken to another level.

Have you tried a "retro" game people seem to love so much? What were your own views on your experience?

Final Fantasy 6, I was one of those people who started playing in the PS1 generation.

It's probably the best 2D Final Fantasy, that said I still find the over head view and side views in battle get a bit boring.

Probably seems like I was spoiled by the 3D versions but I liked the different angles allowed by prerendered backdrops then later to free moving camera.

The way the camera pans around in the battles aswell just makes them more interesting, animated enimes rather than a static images.

I try to enjoy it for what it is but I can't shake that feeling it would be so much better in 3D.

Guess that leads onto remakes, i'm fine with them if they stay true to the original. I have been stung in the past though(mainly my fault), I was SO FUCKING HYPED for Twin Snakes because I loved it on the PS1.
When I got the game I found it dissapointing because...well because I played it(like 8 times) before sounds stupid I know so yeah I won't get super hyped for a remake again.

dartmonkey said:
I\'d completely disagree with Sonic losing anything over time. Specifically 1 and 2, but also 3&K. They\'re still exhilarating to play and live up to my nostalgic feelings. The fact they still feel so good is one of the reasons I have such disdain for post-2000 Sonic games, but let\'s not go into that.

Banjo-Kazooie holds up brilliantly.

I\'m still slogging through Final Fantasy 4. It\'s perfectly fine, but hasn\'t grabbed me at all. Certainly not to the extent that I\'d have thought they could spin another ten sequels out of it, plus the myriad spin-offs. I\'ve got zero inclination to play any of them (except XII, simply because it supposedly ditches much of the framework). I\'m just not one for a grind.

Another \'retro\' game I feel I should try is Metal Gear Solid, but I\'m almost certain it\'s not going to be my thing. I\'ll get round to it at some point.

EDIT: Teetrab, by retro I mean the original itself or a direct port of the original with little to no extras, so not a remake.



( Edited 07.06.2009 19:48 by SuperLink )

Yeah, if your finding 4 too hard or just find grinding boring FF6 onwards are a bit better.

Mario_0 said:
Yeah, if your finding 4 too hard or just find grinding boring FF6 onwards are a bit better.

FF is one of the only series\' for me where there is really no nostalgia to be applied, since I didn\'t get into the series until 6th gen. FFIX was the first title I played, and the GBA ports were the first ones I got. I thoroughly enjoyed all of them, however after playing some of the \"superior\" FF titles I find FFI and II aren\'t really that good any more, which is why releasing them seperately on PSP is just ridiculous.

Also after playing through FFIV about 3 times now I can say with certainty that it is pretty frustrating. I\'ve played FFs I-VI through to at least the final dungeon, and FFVII I\'m halfway through the second disc. FFXII I\'m probably about halfway through too. With my hopefully \"objective\" opinion I believe the best titles are V, VI and VII, although I haven\'t played much/any of VIII IX and X. FFXII however is an excellent progression that really could have taken the series to new places. I only hope we continue to get more \"different\" mainseries titles in the future.

( Edited 07.06.2009 20:57 by SuperLink )

Have games gotten weaker? Have retro games aged badly? Does nostalgia stop us from being objective about these old games? Etc. These are pretty difficult questions to really answer, and I don't think I could say yes or no to any of them. Being objective, I think we all rate some old games too highly sometimes, but not all the time.

Banjo-Kazooie and Banjo-Tooie are still fantastic games. The levels are huge, the tasks myriad, the platforming is top-drawer stuff, the settings are wacky and colourful, and the characters and storylines are inspired. What more could you want? Other than locking blocky (which I always find kind of cool, gives it a 'cubist' feel), it's all there still.

Super Mario 64 still stands as the last time Mario really evolved, like it or not. Yes maybe the camera can be annoying sometimes, but I still find the gameplay as good as anything he's done since. So yes that title has aged, but still stands as the last important milestone that the plumber set.

Have series gotten worse? Well, I think it all depends on your love of 'the sequel' that we have in the entertainment industry. Personally - anything that's story-based and goes beyond two or three instalments is just getting a bit silly. This is why I really can't be arsed with Final Fantasy, any more. Yeah they set it in a new universe every time, but it might as well be the same thing. All the same stuff happens, pretty much. FFXII was a bit of a breath of fresh air, in this regard.

Nevertheless, it is a bit distressing for me to see any story-based series have that many instalments over such a short time period. There is an inevitable decline in storytelling.

So yeah, nostalgia is a mixed-bag. Personally - I love it. My modded Super Famicoms should be here tomorrow or Tuesday! Can't wait! I'll take some photos of them and all the games if I can be bothered. Echoes - how the hell can you not have either of the Earthworm Jim games for your Mega Drive? Get them, foo'! I also notice that you got Flashback - I have the superior SNES version *looks down upon thee*

The only Nostalgia i get gaming wise is playing the Snes with my uncle and brother when i was younger, mainly Super Mario World and ALTTP. Unfortunately i'm the only one who still plays them (going through ALLTP on the psp at the minute). I'll show my uncle and he couldn't care less which is annoying.

Sometimes the amstrad because there were some class games on there which i was playing a year or 2 back.

The Wild Bunch..Chuckie Egg..Jet Set Willy..Trolly Wolly..etc theres a few flash versions about but they're not the same as waiting 30minutes for the tape to load with absolute crap pictures on the attached monitor. Ahh good times.

Martin_ said:
Personally - anything that's story-based and goes beyond two or three instalments is just getting a bit silly. This is why I really can't be arsed with Final Fantasy, any more. Yeah they set it in a new universe every time, but it might as well be the same thing. All the same stuff happens, pretty much. FFXII was a bit of a breath of fresh air, in this regard.

Nevertheless, it is a bit distressing for me to see any story-based series have that many instalments over such a short time period. There is an inevitable decline in storytelling.

Martin_ said:
Echoes - how the hell can you not have either of the Earthworm Jim games for your Mega Drive? Get them, foo'! I also notice that you got Flashback - I have the superior SNES version *looks down upon thee*

I want Earthworm Back...I think I have the PC version somewher, or at my grandparents house.

Also Sonic& knuckes is unboxed thats why you can't see it.
Still, Had most of the classics:
Sonic
Sonic2
Sonic & Knuckles
Sonic Spinball
Speedball
Road Rash
Mortal Kombat
Flashback
Micro Machines (genious game)
Marble Madness
Desert Strike
PGA Tour 1 and 2

Retro was good, lasted me up untill about 2004 when I got my Cube

Im_Neutral said:
The only Nostalgia i get gaming wise is playing the Snes with my uncle and brother when i was younger, mainly Super Mario World and ALTTP. Unfortunately i\'m the only one who still plays them (going through ALLTP on the psp at the minute). I\'ll show my uncle and he couldn\'t care less which is annoying.

I got the NTSC carts of ALTTP and SMW coming with my Super Famicoms!

Echoes221 said:
Ah, About that. I HAD earthworm Jim 1 on the megadrive, it was an unboxed version that I picked up from a carboot sale as well as both versions for PC (again carboot sale) for around £10. I completed all three versions ( 1 on megadrive, then the PC ones) But, Alas, since it was an unboxed version, It went walkies during one of my house moves

You\'re probably better off with the PC versions. Larger colour palette, and CD audio. I\'ve got the SNES versions of both EWJ games coming with my Super Famicoms (I also have them on Mega Drive). I bought them because they\'re the best looking ones. Even better looking than the PC versions (the PC version\'s graphics of both games are based on the Mega Drive versions, just re-coloured).

But alas - the Mega Drive version of EWJ has an extra level, and both EWJ games have more voice samples on the MD than on the SNES. I also prefer the MD renditions of the soundtrack. Hard to pick a definitive version!

( Edited 07.06.2009 23:43 by Martin_ )

One game I can play over and over due to nostalgia is the original Tomb Raider. It was one of the first 3D games I had ever played and I loved it. The first time I got attacked by a group of wolves I ran out of my bedroom terrified as it was all too real for me.
Most people would probably say the game hasn\'t aged well but I still prefer it over recent games in the genre. Had I played it today for the first time would I have loved it as much? Hard to say.

I started Final Fantasy with VIII which was the very first RPG I had played. I have pretty much loved them all the same except for I, II and III. Tis mainly the stories in each and the soundtracks that make me adore them.

SuperLink said:What did you think about the DS game in comparison?
There are criticisms of the DS title that seem pretty genuine, because despite the new characters and improved graphics, the new power ups make things unecessarily complicated, like having to change characters all the time (you may as well just play through the whole thing as Yoshi... transforming was stupid though)

The main thing I wasn\'t impressed with in both was the music. Just didn\'t quite catch my attention like Sunshine, Galaxy and the 2D games. Also the levels got boring after going through them over and over. I still rate both versions highly however and have gotten over 100 stars on both.

SuperLink said:I\'m probably going to get killed for saying this, but Metal Gear Solid Twin Snakes is a pretty great remake that uses the excellent control system of MGS2.

In regards to remakes, I welcome all. Old great games with updated gameplay is almost always a good thing. (e.g HeartGold, SoulSilver.)

( Edited 07.06.2009 23:43 by wAyNe - sTaRT )

The voice acting sucked balls in 'Twin Snakes. David Hayter's rendition of Snake is ridiculously forced in this version (and all the games since MGS1). In the original his performance is much more natural sounding. There's a YouTube video somewhere comparing the voice acting in both versions.

I thought 'Twin Snakes was retarded. A couple of the boss battles are completely broken, too, if I remember rightly.

*bump*

Got one of those \'4 in 1\' games for my Mega Drive through the post, today. It\'s not the one you\'d probably think of - the one with Golden Axe and Streets of Rage, or the one with Super Hang-On, etc. This one\'s a little unusual, and according to the back of the box it was released in 1996 (so quite late for the MD, then?). It contains Gunstar Heroes, Altered Beast, Flicky, and Alex Kidd in the Enchanted Castle.

I pretty much bought it just for Gunstar Heroes, but the others are a bonus, as although I have another \'6 in 1\' cart for my MD, it shares none of it\'s games with this one. Been playing loads of Gunstar Heroes, this morning! The graphics are fantastic for the Mega Drive. Added bonus - it runs fine in 60Hz! Won\'t be bothering to get an NTSC cart of \'Heroes, then.

P.S. Anyone know a solid method of beating the end boss?

Edit: Never mind - I stomped that fool just now :-D

( Edited 09.06.2009 13:10 by Martin_ )

Martin_ said:
P.S. Anyone know a solid method of beating the end boss?

Why isn\'t Gunstar Heroes on Ultimate MegaDrive Collection? I want a good excuse to try it out...

( Edited 09.06.2009 12:47 by SuperLink )

Nah, his weak point is obvious enough (a bunch of gems floating in the air, not actually anything connected to him..). It wasn\'t that, it was just concentrating enough fire on them whilst avoiding Golden Silver\'s devastating attacks. GS himself is completely invincible. In the end I found jumping a lot and kicking to be the key. GS gets knocked down, allowing you some free shots at the gems.

Fucking excellent game. The graphics still look pretty sweet, too. Very, very fast. It\'s relentless like Contra, far better looking, it\'s approach to combining different weaponry is truly inspired, the levels can be tackled in any order (Mega Man-style!), and the bosses are fantastic.

It\'s like an amalgamation of a few different \'classics\', with some of it\'s own fairy dust sprinkled on there, too. It\'s already on VC, and it\'s coming to XBLA and PSN this summer. If I had a choice between VC or XBLA/PSN, I\'d hold out for the latter. Online co-op (if they include it) would be mental!

( Edited 09.06.2009 13:19 by Martin_ )

I guess the reason I'd like to get it in a collection is because I'd much rather spend my points on something I know about. If I have any spare some day though it might be a good idea, or I could always try to find the GBA game cheap.

Don\'t get the GBA version if you can possibly help it. It\'s the worst version. You could always get the ROM somewhere and emulate it to \'try it out\', or just download the demo on XBLA (all games on there have free trial versions).

( Edited 09.06.2009 14:12 by Martin_ )

Martin_ said:
Don't get the GBA version if you can possibly help it. It's the worst version. You could always get the ROM somewhere and emulate it to 'try it out', or just download the demo on XBLA (all games on there have free trial versions).

It was a sequal and was actually pretty good. Think it\'s only downfall was that it was single player and very short.

( Edited 09.06.2009 19:40 by Mario_0 )