News: Fans Creating Third Quest for Ocarina of Time Page 1

RudyC3 24.06.2015#1

Oh boy, I must have this <3 !

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crackedthesky 25.06.2015#2

It looks amazing so far. You can see the effort they're putting into it. The Zelda 1 inspired tree entrance to the dungeon, the openness and overall Shadow of the Colossus-like world. I'll definitely be keeping an eye on this; I just hope something can come of it before they get a C&D.

Part of me wishes they'd gone with the TP or Skyward Sword engine; it already looks fantastic for a 64 game, but I'm imagining the possibilities with a more recent graphics engine.

If the final product looks or feels as good as these trailers, I hope these guys have a long future in gaming. It's a short trailer but it already looks like fantastic level design. I guess I'd have to play it to know for sure, but when I watched it I was blown away. It looks like a legitimate Zelda world.

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Anema86 25.06.2015#3

Nb4 Cease and Desist from Nintendo. No way they'll allow this to be made. Smilie

Though I've held for years that our Intellectual Property laws are stifling creativity and are inherently anti-consumer (It's worth noting that Beethoven wrote "Für Elise," Shakespeare wrote "Hamlet," and Michelangelo painted the Sistine Chapel long before IP was really a thing), and though I've held that the consumer has the right to modify the purchase in whatever way they want to enhance their enjoyment, mainstream law disagrees, and Nintendo will surely C&D this, just as EA did the Ultima remakes people were working on. Smilie

( Edited 25.06.2015 02:33 by Anema86 )

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RudyC3 25.06.2015#4

Nintendo has done noting to prevent Super Mario Star Road, a fan-mod of the original Super Mario 64, from being made, and that game is just as amazing as this third quest and basically the same thing too, since it's a patch of the rom. So I wouldn't worry too much about them getting a C&D.

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Azuardo 25.06.2015#5

I haven't played an N64 emulator in years. I assume the ROM for OOT runs perfectly well? Would be good to try this out.

crackedthesky 25.06.2015#6

It's hard to say. Nintendo mostly tends to step in when it's something that directly affects their sales, like that Mario emulator that was basically Mario.

Nintendo knows full well about Project M but they're not shutting it down, possibly because you can't easily play it without actually owning Brawl in the first place. But an emulator is another story; it requires download and distribution of ROM files, which is where things get muddy.

I don't know. As long as they aren't distributing the original, unmodified game, I would hope Nintendo wouldn't care enough to get involved. They have Ocarina 3D and their Virtual Console ports; as long as this doesn't cut into sales of those (and there's no reason it should) I don't see the harm.

NNID: crackedthesky
My blog, mostly about writing: http://www.davidjlovato.com

Anema86 10.07.2015#7

You know what, my previous comment was completely flawed. If they just release it as a patch for the ROM, then Nintendo won't do anything about it because Nintendo can't do anything about it. There never has been and never will be a law against fanmade patches, and that's ultimately what this boils down to. If they release modified ROMs, yeah, Nintendo would tear them to pieces. But there's absolutely nothing Nintendo can do about a patch, no matter how drastically it alters the original game. I don't know why I didn't think about this before posting about the C&D. The guys will release a patch and instructions on "how to apply it to the ROM you ripped yourself from the cartridge you physically possess" (covering their bases), and then someone will throw the modified ROM onto one of the non-U.S. ROM sites, and the original patchers will have had nothing to do with releasing the ROM.

( Edited 10.07.2015 04:49 by Anema86 )

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Anema86 10.07.2015#8

Although, crackedthesky, it would definitely be argued by Nintendo that the release of this as a modified ROM cut into their sales of the VC and 3DS editions, and it almost certainly would do so, especially for those who want to play "Ocarina Plus" if they don't own a 3DS; the VC version I wouldn't expect to have the Master Quest (or to come at a price that I think will be reasonable, but time will tell). Most copyright laws would definitely take issue with the release of a modified OOT ROM, since they're still actively selling OOT. However, since the team will release a patch rather than a ROM, it's a moot point; I'm just saying it would very much cut into their sales. What percentage is anyone's guess, but the burden of proof would be on Project 3rd Quest to prove that their release doesn't cut into Nintendo's sales; it wouldn't be on Nintendo to prove that it does.

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RudyC3 10.07.2015#9

Azuardo said:
I haven't played an N64 emulator in years. I assume the ROM for OOT runs perfectly well? Would be good to try this out.

Small hiccup every time you open the inventory menu (because of the effect that transforms the 3D scene into a 2D image before displaying items) but otherwise the whole game runs smoothly, I replayed through the 1.0 version not long ago cause I had never witnessed the original Fire Temple music myself, while playing the game. A cheat code is said to alleviate the small pausing on opening the inventory menu but after trying it myself, it didn't do a thing Smilie

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Anema86 11.07.2015#10

TASvideos.org has a fix for the Pause menu lag. This fix is for the Jabo video plugin, but the option almost certainly exists with other plugins. If not, Jabo and Project64 (which is the emulator I've always used for N64) can be found at the link below.

"You MUST have "Copy framebuffer to RDRAM" enabled. This is what removes the infamous pause lag in Ocarina of Time. To do this, go to Options -] Settings -] Config (under video plugin while Jabo 1.6 is selected) -] Advanced (if there is no Advanced tab, then under Settings, uncheck "Hide Advanced Settings" and hit Apply first). Note: Although I used Jabo 1.6 while making the run, Jabo 1.6.1 works as well (and looks identical to 1.6 as far as I can tell)."

http://www.jabosoft.com/articles/114

I can't tell a difference between having the framebuffer copied and not having it copied. For me, there's still about a 1.5 second delay opening the menu, and I can't find the power cable for my N64 if I actually cared how long it took on the original hardware. Since speed is TASvideos' thing, I'm inclined to think they're right, but it doesn't seem like it to me.

( Edited 11.07.2015 00:41 by Anema86 )

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RudyC3 11.07.2015#11

Anema86 said:
TASvideos.org has a fix for the Pause menu lag. This fix is for the Jabo video plugin, but the option almost certainly exists with other plugins. If not, Jabo and Project64 (which is the emulator I've always used for N64) can be found at the link below.

"You MUST have "Copy framebuffer to RDRAM" enabled. This is what removes the infamous pause lag in Ocarina of Time. To do this, go to Options -] Settings -] Config (under video plugin while Jabo 1.6 is selected) -] Advanced (if there is no Advanced tab, then under Settings, uncheck "Hide Advanced Settings" and hit Apply first). Note: Although I used Jabo 1.6 while making the run, Jabo 1.6.1 works as well (and looks identical to 1.6 as far as I can tell)."
http://www.jabosoft.com/articles/114

If your machine is slow though, copy framebuffer to RDRAM renders the game VERY slow and unplayable, you've got to have above-average hardware to run that option without any drops in framerate or sound crackling.

But yeah, PJ64 1.6.1 (download 1.6 and apply the 1.6.1 patch update for the emulator and job plugins) is the best combination for this game in particular, but Jabo isn't a go to for every game though, it runs some games great while others, it can't run them properly at all.

( Edited 11.07.2015 00:42 by RudyC3 )

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Anema86 11.07.2015#12

RudyC3 said:

Anema86 said:
TASvideos.org has a fix for the Pause menu lag. This fix is for the Jabo video plugin, but the option almost certainly exists with other plugins. If not, Jabo and Project64 (which is the emulator I've always used for N64) can be found at the link below.

"You MUST have "Copy framebuffer to RDRAM" enabled. This is what removes the infamous pause lag in Ocarina of Time. To do this, go to Options -] Settings -] Config (under video plugin while Jabo 1.6 is selected) -] Advanced (if there is no Advanced tab, then under Settings, uncheck "Hide Advanced Settings" and hit Apply first). Note: Although I used Jabo 1.6 while making the run, Jabo 1.6.1 works as well (and looks identical to 1.6 as far as I can tell)."
http://www.jabosoft.com/articles/114

If your machine is slow though, copy framebuffer to RDRAM renders the game VERY slow and unplayable, you've got to have above-average hardware to run that option without any drops in framerate or sound crackling.
But yeah, PJ64 1.6.1 (download 1.6 and apply the 1.6.1 patch update for the emulator and job plugins) is the best combination for this game in particular, but Jabo isn't a go to for every game though, it runs some games great while others, it can't run them properly at all.

That's good to know. Thanks. Smilie

I wonder, though, with the way hardware has progressed in the past few years (64-bit architecture, multi-core CPUs, and 4+ GB of DDR3 becoming standard), if it still has that effect? I'm not questioning you; I just am curious. I know that DeSuMe and Dolphin have 64-bit versions, but PCSX2r1888 (a rare beta build that I can no longer find but emulates PS2 beautifully and without the terrible performance that the official builds had) doesn't. It seems like it would be a natural step for an N64 emulator, but, then again, that requires effort that they may not be willing to put into it.

I wonder if a previous comment I made on another article of "I don't necessarily approve of emulation..." still has any merit... lol

( Edited 11.07.2015 02:38 by Anema86 )

Edit this post:

[quote][b]RudyC3 said:[/b]<br/>
[quote][b]Anema86 said:[/b]<br/>TASvideos.org has a fix for the Pause menu lag. This fix is for the Jabo video plugin, but the option almost certainly exists with other plugins. If not, Jabo and Project64 (which is the emulator I've always used for N64) can be found at the link below.
[quote]"[color=#000000]You MUST have "Copy framebuffer to RDRAM" enabled. This is what removes the infamous pause lag in Ocarina of Time. To do this, go to Options -] Settings -] Config (under video plugin while Jabo 1.6 is selected) -] Advanced (if there is no Advanced tab, then under Settings, uncheck "Hide Advanced Settings" and hit Apply first). Note: Although I used Jabo 1.6 while making the run, Jabo 1.6.1 works as well (and looks identical to 1.6 as far as I can tell)."[/color][/quote]

http://www.jabosoft.com/articles/114[/quote]
If your machine is slow though, copy framebuffer to RDRAM renders the game VERY slow and unplayable, you've got to have above-average hardware to run that option without any drops in framerate or sound crackling.

But yeah, PJ64 1.6.1 (download 1.6 and apply the 1.6.1 patch update for the emulator and job plugins) is the best combination for this game in particular, but Jabo isn't a go to for every game though, it runs some games great while others, it can't run them properly at all.[/quote]
That's good to know. Thanks. :)

I wonder, though, with the way hardware has progressed in the past few years (64-bit architecture, multi-core CPUs, and 4+ GB of DDR3 becoming standard), if it still has that effect? I'm not questioning you; I just am curious. I know that DeSuMe and Dolphin have 64-bit versions, but PCSX2r1888 (a rare beta build that I can no longer find but emulates PS2 [i]beautifully [/i]and without the terrible performance that the official builds had) doesn't. It seems like it would be a natural step for an N[b][u]64[/u][/b] emulator, but, then again, that requires effort that they may not be willing to put into it.

I wonder if a previous comment I made on another article of "I don't necessarily [i]approve[/i] of emulation..." still has any merit... lol

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RudyC3 11.07.2015#13

Anema86 said:

I wonder, though, with the way hardware has progressed in the past few years (64-bit architecture, multi-core CPUs, and 4+ GB of DDR3 becoming standard), if it still has that effect? I'm not questioning you; I just am curious.

Let's just say that entry level hardware bought on the cheap won't cut it for the framebuffer to RDRAM thing. My quad-core laptop runs it fine, but a dual core 4 year old desktop PC I'm using still struggles on key-moments such as on that pause screen with the option enabled, or in MK64, every time the screen on top of the tunnel in Luigi Raceway has to display the duplicate image of the race, if you know what I mean. It still stutters on those points, but very recent hardware does not struggle that much anymore with that option. In general, Mupen 64 with the same option enabled does not have the slowdown at all, because it pulls it off a different way, but that emulator isn't the best out the for OoT in particular, it misses certain other effects.

Having a 64-bit CPU doesn't help for n64 emulation for the reason that games for the system barely ever used 64-bit instructions and thus emulators usually ignore altogether the rare 64-bit instructions used sparsely in certain games (Rareware games sometimes throw exceptions saying "unsupported R4100i microcode op" or stuff like that so the option to catch and display exceptions has to be turned off, and it usually is by default, unless it's an instruction that's needed to continue running the game, such as in Factor 5 games). Not having those 64-bit instructions makes you lose accuracy, yes, but helps gaining in performance. There exist, to my knowledge, no version of any N64 emulator out there that's compiled in a 64-bit version, and to be frank, PC N64 emulators aren't updated that much anymore.

( Edited 11.07.2015 09:28 by RudyC3 )

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Anema86 14.07.2015#14

Bizhawk still gets regular updates, but that's mainly because it emulates practically every console, which gives TASers an easy way to do multiple games and consoles without having to configure a bunch of save state and record settings. I think it's actually developed by the TAS community, and it's definitely the preferred emulator for several systems. I've never actually used it (I only TAS NES games, and FCEUX works just fine for that). I imagine it's obscenely complicated, though. I think I'm gonna have to check it out now. Being able to launch pretty much any game with a single emulator is... That's a nice feature.

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