News: First Pokémon Black/White Scans Leak Page 2

JoshSL 12.04.2010#26

Jacob4000 said:
I think you need to put C3 Pokemon Defense force in your sig too.

I wasn't under the impression that Pokémon needed to be defended T_T it's a hugely loved series that are even now very well received by critics are far as RPGs go

Everyone still loves 2D Mario, so mainseries Pokémon getting grief for not changing (even though it has evolved a lot, just not changed fundamentally) is ironic/insulting/depressing, especially since this is a Nintendo forum.

(Sonic on the other hand does need defending, he can't come out of rehab successfully if he's been brutally murdered by billions of angry forumers Smilie )

( Edited 11.04.2010 19:17 by SuperLink )

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blinx-182 12.04.2010#27

Jacob4000 said:
GameFreak do not plan on making radical changes to the mainseries, they made this decision so the classic gameplay will always be there for fans who want it. They will still be actually evolving the franchise though (as anyone who still plays the games will see as plain as day), unlike 2D Mario which took a few steps forward then decided the water was too cold.
That's why its fundamentally different than Mario. Ninteno did make changes. The two are working in the reverse here. Nintendo made massive changes to Mario, and then made the oldschool style the side series.
Pokemon's main series has stayed the same, with its experimenting done with its sidegames. Its certainly different.

Proof? 3D Mario excites me every single time, but 2D Mario now bores me because of its desire to cling to 1985.
I dunno - you can argue that they change a lot, but this line stills cracks me up coming from a Pokemon fan. Again, I'm not disparaging the series for not making radical changes, I'm just saying its path is not the same as Marios. Mario already went through his significant changes. The 2D stuff is just for the fans who miss the oldschool. Just because you didn't doesn't mean there aren't people out there who did miss it.
Haha, as if adding CoOp to a genre that's had CoOp of the same quality for over a decade is bigger than adding online battling and trading as soon to Pokémon as soon as they became important features in modern gaming.
Wow wow we aren't talking about evolving the genre, we're talking about evolving the series. Second of all, adding four player co-op fundamentally changes the way you both design a level and play it. Online trading just took something that pokemon had done for a decade and a half and extend it. That is all. Its freaking cool certainly, but it doesn't fundamentally alter the gameplay like having four people on screen at once can. It merely expands functionality. It definitely makes the game better, but its not a radical change.
3D Mario is almost a differen genre altogether to 2D Mario, they're not even comparable in terms of formula or gameplay. That's not a radical change, Nintendo and the fans now see 2D and 3D Marios as seperate series'

That's exactly what I'm saying. Nintendo got radical with the mainline series. Completely altered it. Pokemon hasn't done this. They keep the changes as you've mentioned to their lower key spin-offs. And I think that's what people complain about. They want Gamefreak to do what Nintendo did with Mario -- make some radical changes to the mainline series.
Appreciating is different from loving, I appreciated that it introduced multiplayer but I would have far preferred a game that actually evolved the series, seeing as we got pretty much the exact same thing a few years earlier on DS.
You're acting like the 30 million people who bought both games see it exactly like you do. Come on. There are probably a lot of people like you, and alot of people like me. Bottom line is that there is an audience there who are enthusiastic about the game, or it couldn't have sold so well.
I'm only attacking 2D Mario because it's more guilty than mainseries Pokémon of refusing to evolve, and so many people just can't see this, particularly people who have no idea just how much Pokémon has evolved. I do still enjoy 2D Mario, it's just not fair that Pokémon gets so much grief when everyone's favourite plumber is worse.
Okay then. Maybe we're having a misunderstanding here then? I see them all as one series until the N64 -- then the 3D way become the main series, which represented a huge shift for the Mario line. Hence my argument that its changed hugely.
I'm not arguing that 2D Mario has though. I think co-op is a big change, but in general it has stayed the same. And that's perfectly cool with me. But certainly you can see that Pokemon hasn't really changed either? I think only die-hard Pokemon fans see things like berries and adding another 100 pokemon as being "big changes". The rest of the world rolls their eyes and wonders when its really going to change.

Agreed for the most part. I've watched the Gametrailers review of Diamond & Pearl, and that pretty much opened my eyes. Getting caught in a time loop works for stuff like Mario, but Pokemon? It's quite broke and needs fixing.

Edit this post:

[quote][b]Jacob4000 said:[/b] [quote][u]GameFreak do not plan on making radical changes to the mainseries[/u], they made this decision so the classic gameplay will always be there for fans who want it. They will still be actually evolving the franchise though (as anyone who still plays the games will see as plain as day), unlike 2D Mario which took a few steps forward then decided the water was too cold. [/quote]

[i]That's why its fundamentally different than Mario.[/i] Ninteno [i]did[/i] make changes. The two are working in the reverse here. Nintendo made massive changes to Mario, and then made the oldschool style the side series.

Pokemon's main series has stayed the same, with its experimenting done with its sidegames. Its certainly different.

[quote]
Proof? 3D Mario excites me every single time, but 2D Mario now bores me because of its desire to cling to 1985. [/quote]

I dunno -  you can argue that they change a lot, but this line stills cracks me up coming from a Pokemon fan. Again, I'm not disparaging the series for not making radical changes, I'm just saying its path is not the same as Marios. Mario already went through his significant changes. The 2D stuff is just for the fans who miss the oldschool. Just because you didn't doesn't mean there aren't people out there who did miss it.

[quote]Haha, as if adding CoOp to a genre that's had CoOp of the same quality for over a decade is bigger than adding online battling and trading as soon to Pokémon as soon as they became important features in modern gaming. [/quote]

Wow wow we aren't talking about evolving the genre, we're talking about evolving the series. Second of all, adding four player co-op fundamentally changes the way you both design a level and play it. Online trading just took something that pokemon had done for a decade and a half and extend it. That is all. Its freaking cool certainly, but it doesn't fundamentally alter the gameplay like having four people on screen at once can. It merely expands functionality. It definitely makes the game better, but its not a radical change.

[quote]3D Mario is almost a differen genre altogether to 2D Mario, they're not even comparable in terms of formula or gameplay. That's not a radical change, Nintendo and the fans now see 2D and 3D Marios as seperate series'
 [/quote]

[i]That's exactly what I'm saying[/i]. Nintendo got radical with the mainline series. Completely altered it. Pokemon hasn't done this. They keep the changes as you've mentioned to their lower key spin-offs. And I think that's what people complain about. They want Gamefreak to do what Nintendo did with Mario -- make some radical changes to the mainline series.

[quote]Appreciating is different from loving, I appreciated that it introduced multiplayer but I would have far preferred a game that actually evolved the series, seeing as we got pretty much the exact same thing a few years earlier on DS. [/quote]

You're acting like the 30 million people who bought both games see it exactly like you do. Come on. There are probably a lot of people like you, and alot of people like me. Bottom line is that there is an audience there who are enthusiastic about the game, or it couldn't have sold so well.

[quote]I'm only attacking 2D Mario because it's more guilty than mainseries Pokémon of refusing to evolve, and so many people just can't see this, particularly people who have no idea just how much Pokémon has evolved. I do still enjoy 2D Mario, it's just not fair that Pokémon gets so much grief when everyone's favourite plumber is worse.[/quote]

Okay then. Maybe we're having a misunderstanding here then? I see them all as one series until the N64 -- then the 3D way become the main series, which represented a huge shift for the Mario line. Hence my argument that its changed hugely.

I'm not arguing that 2D Mario has though. I think co-op is a big change, but in general it has stayed the same. And that's perfectly cool with me. But certainly you can see that Pokemon hasn't really changed either? I think only die-hard Pokemon fans see things like berries and adding another 100 pokemon as being "big changes". The rest of the world rolls their eyes and wonders when its [i]really[/i] going to change.

[/quote]
Agreed for the most part. I've watched the [url=http://www.gametrailers.com/video/review-pokemon-d/18809]Gametrailers review[/url] of Diamond & Pearl, and that pretty much opened my eyes. Getting caught in a time loop works for stuff like Mario, but Pokemon? It's quite broke and needs fixing.

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25 Postcards (guest) 12.04.2010#28

A pointless argument...

crackedthesky 12.04.2010#29

I'd like all of those saying Pokemon has never, ever changed to let me know how wifi trading and battles work on their Gameboy Color.

We're dealing with an RPG, here. They aren't known for making radical changes. Maybe you should higlight the vast differences in the four billion Final Fantasy games, or let me know how Fable 2 is any different from the first game. People keep bringing up Golden Sun, when both Golden Sun games were pretty much the exact same thing.

I'm really not sure what you people want. The games have added a ton of new features across the series; the Apricorn system, berry system, double battles, custom pokeballs, custom Safari Zone, wireless connectivity, wifi connectivity, chaining, breeding, minigames, and now a major graphical overhaul both in and out of battles.
What, exactly, do you want them to do? Have you stop playing as a character that runs around catching monsters to use against different monsters? Then it wouldn't even be the same series. Every game has brought many changes to the series. Just because the series doesn't suddenly become a first person shooter or a sidescrolling fighter doesn't mean the games haven't changed at all. This entire argument is beyond ridiculous. Going back to the Mario comparison we apparently can't get over, that series has been consistently about a plumber who runs around hopping on creatures' heads and looking for a princess. Instead of doing it from a sidescrolling perspective, now it's 3-D, and you point the wii remote around to make him move. Big freakin' difference there. Now Pokemon is 3D and I move a stylus around to control it, but that counts as being exactly the same as the very first game in the series? This makes no sense.

( Edited 12.04.2010 18:45 by justonesp00lturn )

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JoshSL 13.04.2010#30

blinx-182 said:
Agreed for the most part. I've watched the Gametrailers review of Diamond & Pearl, and that pretty much opened my eyes. Getting caught in a time loop works for stuff like Mario, but Pokemon? It's quite broke and needs fixing.

>implying GameTrailers Reviews offer supreme enlightenment.
And Pokémon is broken? Probably the most balanced and competitive RPG series ever created (all this despite being a children's game) is broken? You have no idea what you're talking about.

@Justonesp00lturn
Thankyouthankyouthankyou. Smilie

Perhaps the fact that Nintendo generally doesn't really do particularly long-running RPG franchises is what people have a problem with? This problem is much more evidence at Square-Enix, who suffer with things like voice acting, plot pacing, dungeon layout and blablabla aswell as being stuck in the past. FF is still very popular and people accept it, they also accept the fact that it has very good spinoffs that offer new takes on the franchise.

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blinx-182 13.04.2010#31

SuperLink said:
And Pokémon is broken? Probably the most balanced and competitive RPG series ever created (all this despite being a children's game) is broken? You have no idea what you're talking about.

You really don't know me to make that assumption, really; I'm not some guy talking out his crack over the internet.

Show Spoiler

Perhaps you didn't exactly watch the video, but these are the things the reviewer pointed out:

*Introduction is practically pedestrian and low-budget

*The game doesn't really push the DS's capabilities

*It's hard to anticipate how much a particular attack from a particular monster, will drain the health of the opponent, and then, some require status ailments before they can captured. This brings up an issue the series has had for some time. There's just not enough information about the Pokemon inside the game. The effectiveness of each Pokemon type against other types varies greatly. There's no reason why you shouldn't be able to know beforehand exactly how much damage each attack will do against a particular foe. Fanatics will say that this knowledge is what makes a great Pokemon trainer, but the realist will accept that it's a way to sell more strategy guide. Compounding this problem is the fact that each critter reacts to things differently. Some will evolve and become more powerful, while others will be limited after evolution, but there's simply no way to know this, unless you buy a strategy guide.

*Despite a couple of wrinkles to the formula, Pokemon Diamond and Pearl plays exactly like prior games in the series. Veterans will be able to jump right in and start collecting, and thanks to some serious hand-holding, the learning curve for newcomers is slight. Even so, this is the same game we've been playing for 9 years.

Frankly, I'm still waiting for Pokemon Stadium on a handheld. I'm a bit tired of playing the main games that have seen mostly minimal improvements over their short history. As for the "supreme enlightenment" comment, I merely saw things from the other side of the spectrum. I loved Pokemon for it's pros, and never bothered to look at it objectively for any cons, which the Gametrailers review did. We are sharing viewpoints here ie this is all a matter of opinion, so I'm not about to get into a pissing contest.

( Edited 12.04.2010 20:57 by blinx-182 )

Edit this post:

[quote][b]SuperLink said:[/b] And Pokémon is broken? Probably the most balanced and competitive RPG series ever created (all this [i]despite[/i] being a children's game) is [i]broken[/i]? You have no idea what you're talking about.[/quote]
You really don't [i]know[/i] me to make that assumption, really; I'm not some guy talking out his crack over the internet.

[spoiler] I've own the original gameboy, gbp, gbc, and gba sp. I own Pokemon games from about every generation. 
[img]http://mjv6qw.blu.livefilestore.com/y1psSf_0PqSBrztz-qBVM4x6dgnwZLfT6qCUw3MAzjFk5cNzT5k7Wjl_lR3hlfk13D3pS15DaeRASif8M3CSD2ku5F596hIqE8V/overtheyears.jpg[/img]

I started out playing a friend's Blue version to owning my own game [Gold] at christmas up until today where I own both Diamond and Pearl, so again, I know exactly what I'm talking about when I say Pokemon being stuck in a time loop is bad in [i]some[/i] cases. [/spoiler]

Perhaps you didn't exactly watch the video, but these are the things the reviewer pointed out:

*Introduction is practically pedestrian and low-budget
 
*The game doesn't really push the DS's capabilities

*It's hard to anticipate how much a particular attack from a particular monster, will drain the health of the opponent, and then, some require status ailments before they can captured. This brings up an issue the series has had for some time. There's just not enough information about the Pokemon inside the game. The effectiveness of each Pokemon type against other types varies greatly. There's no reason why you shouldn't be able to know beforehand exactly how much damage each attack will do against a particular foe. Fanatics will say that this knowledge is what makes a great Pokemon trainer, but the realist will accept that it's a way to sell more strategy guide. Compounding this problem is the fact that each critter reacts to things differently. Some will evolve and become more powerful,  while others will be limited after evolution, but there's simply no way to know this, unless you buy a strategy guide.
 
*Despite a couple of wrinkles to the formula, Pokemon Diamond and Pearl plays exactly like prior games in the series. Veterans will be able to jump right in and start collecting, and thanks to some serious hand-holding, the learning curve for newcomers is slight. Even so, this is the same game we've been playing for 9 years.

Frankly, I'm still waiting for Pokemon Stadium on a handheld. I'm a bit tired of playing the main games that have seen mostly minimal improvements over their short history. As for the "supreme enlightenment" comment, I merely saw things from the other side of the spectrum. I loved Pokemon for it's pros, and never bothered to look at it objectively for any cons, which the Gametrailers review did. We are sharing viewpoints here ie this is all a matter of opinion, so I'm not about to get into a pissing contest.[i][/i]

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JoshSL 13.04.2010#32

*Introduction is practically pedestrian and low-budget
*The game doesn't really push the DS's capabilities

GameFreak are a tiny development company, and Platinum/HeartGold/SoulSilver really fix these.

*It's hard to anticipate how much a particular attack from a particular monster, will drain the health of the opponent, and then, some require status ailments before they can captured. This brings up an issue the series has had for some time. There's just not enough information about the Pokemon inside the game. The effectiveness of each Pokemon type against other types varies greatly. There's no reason why you shouldn't be able to know beforehand exactly how much damage each attack will do against a particular foe.

Pokémon is designed for children to be able to play, so this truly honestly isn't a problem in the single player game. Therefore....

Fanatics will say that this knowledge is what makes a great Pokemon trainer, but the realist will accept that it's a way to sell more strategy guide. Compounding this problem is the fact that each critter reacts to things differently. Some will evolve and become more powerful, while others will be limited after evolution, but there's simply no way to know this, unless you buy a strategy guide.

Anyone who's considering taking their game to the next level or going competitive wouldn't dream of relying on a Guide when they have the internet at their fingertips.

Also Pokémon Diamond, Pearl and Platinum include type matchup apps that allow you to check the % one type will do to another type combo. Really not a problem at all if you use the Pokétch properly.

*Despite a couple of wrinkles to the formula, Pokemon Diamond and Pearl plays exactly like prior games in the series. Veterans will be able to jump right in and start collecting, and thanks to some serious hand-holding, the learning curve for newcomers is slight. Even so, this is the same game we've been playing for 9 years.

With genuine improvements and evolutions (especially in Platinum). Plenty of other RPG franchises are far more guilty of not changing than Pokémon.
Veterans of almost any game franchise will be able to jump right in to the next game along.

Frankly, I'm still waiting for Pokemon Stadium on a handheld.

Why? What would that offer?

I loved Pokemon for it's pros, and never bothered to look at it objectively for any cons, which the Gametrailers review did. We are sharing viewpoints here ie this is all a matter of opinion, so I'm not about to get into a pissing contest.

Most of GameTrailer's cons you've listed are subjective or even a little ignorant (like them ignoring D/P being an early DS game made by a tiny developer, or the fact that you can check Type Matchups in game)

A real con would be the difficulty balance in HG/SS. A remake should be modernising and fixing problems with the original, but instead HG/SS just keeps it the same and makes it prettier/adds loads of stuff. Because of this it really shows its age next to Platinum.

PS. I'm sorry for judging you from what little you wrote, but really, Pokémon's not "broken" at all, and the way you called it that so passingly made you seem ignorant.

Also, why no Platinum? Ask anyone, the changes made to D/P are so significant that I enjoyed Platinum far more than the originals.

( Edited 12.04.2010 21:22 by SuperLink )

Edit this post:

[quote]*Introduction is practically pedestrian and low-budget

*The game doesn't really push the DS's capabilities [/quote]
GameFreak are a [i]tiny[/i] development company, and Platinum/HeartGold/SoulSilver really fix these.

[quote]*It's hard to anticipate how much a particular attack from a particular monster, will drain the health of the opponent, and then, some require status ailments before they can captured. This brings up an issue the series has had for some time. There's just not enough information about the Pokemon inside the game. The effectiveness of each Pokemon type against other types varies greatly. There's no reason why you shouldn't be able to know beforehand exactly how much damage each attack will do against a particular foe.[/quote]
Pokémon is designed for children to be able to play, so this truly honestly isn't a problem in the single player game. Therefore....

[quote]Fanatics will say that this knowledge is what makes a great Pokemon trainer, but the realist will accept that it's a way to sell more strategy guide. Compounding this problem is the fact that each critter reacts to things differently. Some will evolve and become more powerful, while others will be limited after evolution, but there's simply no way to know this, unless you buy a strategy guide.[/quote]
Anyone who's considering taking their game to the next level or going competitive wouldn't dream of relying on a Guide when they have the internet at their fingertips.

Also Pokémon Diamond, Pearl and Platinum include type matchup apps that allow you to check the % one type will do to another type combo. Really not a problem at all if you use the Pokétch properly.

[quote]*Despite a couple of wrinkles to the formula, Pokemon Diamond and Pearl plays exactly like prior games in the series. Veterans will be able to jump right in and start collecting, and thanks to some serious hand-holding, the learning curve for newcomers is slight. Even so, this is the same game we've been playing for 9 years. [/quote]
With genuine improvements and evolutions (especially in Platinum). [i]Plenty[/i] of other RPG franchises are [i]far[/i] more guilty of not changing than Pokémon.
Veterans of almost any game franchise will be able to jump right in to the next game along.

[quote]Frankly, I'm still waiting for Pokemon Stadium on a handheld.[/quote]
Why? What would that offer?

[quote]I loved Pokemon for it's pros, and never bothered to look at it objectively for any cons, which the Gametrailers review did. We are sharing viewpoints here ie this is all a matter of opinion, so I'm not about to get into a pissing contest.[/quote]
Most of GameTrailer's cons you've listed are subjective or even a little ignorant (like them ignoring D/P being an early DS game made by a tiny developer, or the fact that you can check Type Matchups in game)

A [i]real[/i] con would be the difficulty balance in HG/SS. A remake [i]should[/i] be modernising and fixing problems with the original, but instead HG/SS just keeps it the same and makes it prettier/adds loads of stuff. Because of this it really shows its age next to Platinum.

PS. I'm sorry for judging you from what little you wrote, but really, Pokémon's not "broken" at all, and the way you called it that so passingly made you seem ignorant.

Also, why no Platinum? Ask anyone, the changes made to D/P are so significant that I enjoyed Platinum far more than the originals.

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crackedthesky 13.04.2010#33

blinx-182 said:
SuperLink said:
And Pokémon is broken? Probably the most balanced and competitive RPG series ever created (all this despite being a children's game) is broken? You have no idea what you're talking about.

You really don't know me to make that assumption, really; I'm not some guy talking out his crack over the internet.
Show Spoiler
I've own the original gameboy, gbp, gbc, and gba sp. I own Pokemon games from about every generation.

I started out playing a friend's Blue version to owning my own game [Gold] at christmas up until today where I own both Diamond and Pearl, so again, I know exactly what I'm talking about when I say Pokemon being stuck in a time loop is bad in some cases.

Perhaps you didn't exactly watch the video, but these are the things the reviewer pointed out:
*Introduction is practically pedestrian and low-budget

*The game doesn't really push the DS's capabilities
*It's hard to anticipate how much a particular attack from a particular monster, will drain the health of the opponent, and then, some require status ailments before they can captured. This brings up an issue the series has had for some time. There's just not enough information about the Pokemon inside the game. The effectiveness of each Pokemon type against other types varies greatly. There's no reason why you shouldn't be able to know beforehand exactly how much damage each attack will do against a particular foe. Fanatics will say that this knowledge is what makes a great Pokemon trainer, but the realist will accept that it's a way to sell more strategy guide. Compounding this problem is the fact that each critter reacts to things differently. Some will evolve and become more powerful, while others will be limited after evolution, but there's simply no way to know this, unless you buy a strategy guide.

*Despite a couple of wrinkles to the formula, Pokemon Diamond and Pearl plays exactly like prior games in the series. Veterans will be able to jump right in and start collecting, and thanks to some serious hand-holding, the learning curve for newcomers is slight. Even so, this is the same game we've been playing for 9 years.
Frankly, I'm still waiting for Pokemon Stadium on a handheld. I'm a bit tired of playing the main games that have seen mostly minimal improvements over their short history. As for the "supreme enlightenment" comment, I merely saw things from the other side of the spectrum. I loved Pokemon for it's pros, and never bothered to look at it objectively for any cons, which the Gametrailers review did. We are sharing viewpoints here ie this is all a matter of opinion, so I'm not about to get into a pissing contest.

You own all of those games, and your only argument relies on points brought up by someone else?
First of all, the idea that they don't push the DS is stupid. I didn't realize a game had to push the boundaries or else had points docked from it. In this case, 2-D sidescrollers for the Wii must be automatic shit, right?
Second, the complaints about the battle system being inaccurate are also false. As far as the way damage and attacks and things work, it's consistent with the rest of the series.
Third, the introduction isn't cool enough? That's probably one of the most stupid reasons to fault a game I've ever seen in my life. What happens before you press start has pretty much no bearing on the game whatsoever. Ocarina of Time's introduction consists of a horse neighing and standing up a few times in a row, but that doesn't stop the game from being heralded as one of the best of all time. Hell, Resident Evil 4 doesn't even HAVE an introduction, and it makes the top of nearly every list out there.
Complaining about lack of knowledge of evolution is also stupid. People didn't have all of that memorized when the first games came out, either. It's effectively comparing a game that someone has had ten years to memorize to one that just came out, and saying that it's too hard to learn things or that it loses points because the reviewer doesn't know things. That's stupid.
An excuse to sell strategy guides? That reviewer has something wrong with his head. Or he's never heard of Gamefaqs. I don't know anyone who even buys strategy guides anymore, unless they don't know what the internet is. But it's a completley stupid point anyway; he's saying that keeping things the same is good for people who know the series, but it's just an excuse for people who aren't familiar to buy strategy guides; when changing it so that old fans would be jsut as in the dark would lead to MORE people not knowing what they're doing, and buying strategy guides. That's a completely weak argument, it doesn't even make sense. He's saying the way to fix people not knowing what to do is to start over so that NOBODY knows what to do. That's rubbish.
Before you jump on the "you're just a fanboy" bandwagon, you should probably know that until last summer, I hadn't played a pokemon game since Silver first came out. In that time, I've caught up (and a quick search of the site will show you that I was less than thrilled with Generation 3; I found it to be confusing, offer little advancement to the series outside of double battles, and the overwhelming number of Poochyena will forever haunt it.)

Edit this post:

[quote][b]blinx-182 said:[/b] [quote][b]SuperLink said:[/b] And Pokémon is broken? Probably the most balanced and competitive RPG series ever created (all this [i]despite[/i] being a children's game) is [i]broken[/i]? You have no idea what you're talking about.[/quote]
You really don't [i]know[/i] me to make that assumption, really; I'm not some guy talking out his crack over the internet.

[spoiler] I've own the original gameboy, gbp, gbc, and gba sp. I own Pokemon games from about every generation. 
[img]http://mjv6qw.blu.livefilestore.com/y1psSf_0PqSBrztz-qBVM4x6dgnwZLfT6qCUw3MAzjFk5cNzT5k7Wjl_lR3hlfk13D3pS15DaeRASif8M3CSD2ku5F596hIqE8V/overtheyears.jpg[/img]

I started out playing a friend's Blue version to owning my own game [Gold] at christmas up until today where I own both Diamond and Pearl, so again, I know exactly what I'm talking about when I say Pokemon being stuck in a time loop is bad in [i]some[/i] cases. [/spoiler]

Perhaps you didn't exactly watch the video, but these are the things the reviewer pointed out:

*Introduction is practically pedestrian and low-budget
 
*The game doesn't really push the DS's capabilities

*It's hard to anticipate how much a particular attack from a particular monster, will drain the health of the opponent, and then, some require status ailments before they can captured. This brings up an issue the series has had for some time. There's just not enough information about the Pokemon inside the game. The effectiveness of each Pokemon type against other types varies greatly. There's no reason why you shouldn't be able to know beforehand exactly how much damage each attack will do against a particular foe. Fanatics will say that this knowledge is what makes a great Pokemon trainer, but the realist will accept that it's a way to sell more strategy guide. Compounding this problem is the fact that each critter reacts to things differently. Some will evolve and become more powerful,  while others will be limited after evolution, but there's simply no way to know this, unless you buy a strategy guide.
 
*Despite a couple of wrinkles to the formula, Pokemon Diamond and Pearl plays exactly like prior games in the series. Veterans will be able to jump right in and start collecting, and thanks to some serious hand-holding, the learning curve for newcomers is slight. Even so, this is the same game we've been playing for 9 years.

Frankly, I'm still waiting for Pokemon Stadium on a handheld. I'm a bit tired of playing the main games that have seen mostly minimal improvements over their short history. As for the "supreme enlightenment" comment, I merely saw things from the other side of the spectrum. I loved Pokemon for it's pros, and never bothered to look at it objectively for any cons, which the Gametrailers review did. We are sharing viewpoints here ie this is all a matter of opinion, so I'm not about to get into a pissing contest.[i][/i][/quote]

You own all of those games, and your only argument relies on points brought up by someone else?
First of all, the idea that they don't push the DS is stupid. I didn't realize a game had to push the boundaries or else had points docked from it. In this case, 2-D sidescrollers for the Wii must be automatic shit, right?
Second, the complaints about the battle system being inaccurate are also false. As far as the way damage and attacks and things work, it's consistent with the rest of the series.
Third, the introduction isn't cool enough? That's probably one of the most stupid reasons to fault a game I've ever seen in my life. What happens before you press start has pretty much no bearing on the game whatsoever. Ocarina of Time's introduction consists of a horse neighing and standing up a few times in a row, but that doesn't stop the game from being heralded as one of the best of all time. Hell, Resident Evil 4 doesn't even HAVE an introduction, and it makes the top of nearly every list out there.
Complaining about lack of knowledge of evolution is also stupid. People didn't have all of that memorized when the first games came out, either. It's effectively comparing a game that someone has had ten years to memorize to one that just came out, and saying that it's too hard to learn things or that it loses points because the reviewer doesn't know things. That's stupid.
An excuse to sell strategy guides? That reviewer has something wrong with his head. Or he's never heard of Gamefaqs. I don't know anyone who even buys strategy guides anymore, unless they don't know what the internet is. But it's a completley stupid point anyway; he's saying that keeping things the same is good for people who know the series, but it's just an excuse for people who aren't familiar to buy strategy guides; when changing it so that old fans would be jsut as in the dark would lead to MORE people not knowing what they're doing, and buying strategy guides. That's a completely weak argument, it doesn't even make sense. He's saying the way to fix people not knowing what to do is to start over so that NOBODY knows what to do. That's rubbish.
Before you jump on the "you're just a fanboy" bandwagon, you should probably know that until last summer, I hadn't played a pokemon game since Silver first came out. In that time, I've caught up (and a quick search of the site will show you that I was less than thrilled with Generation 3; I found it to be confusing, offer little advancement to the series outside of double battles, and the overwhelming number of Poochyena will forever haunt it.)

Save Changes Cancel Full Edit

NNID: crackedthesky
My blog, mostly about writing: http://www.davidjlovato.com

blinx-182 13.04.2010#34

SuperLink said:
GameFreak are a tiny development company, and Platinum/HeartGold/SoulSilver really fix these.

Never stopped to think that, considering how huge Nintendo itself is.
SuperLink said:
Pokémon is designed for children to be able to play, so this truly honestly isn't a problem in the single player game. Therefore....

That may be so [Though the games are rated E], but children aren't the only ones that play it.
SuperLink said:
ith genuine improvements and evolutions (especially in Platinum). Plenty of other RPG franchises are far more guilty of not changing than Pokémon.

That doesn't really have much to do with my argument; I don't play other rpgs. The veterans thing wasn't meant to be taken as a con.
SuperLink said:
Why? What would that offer?

Because ,the console games are more realistic for me when it comes to the battle scenes an attacks. One reason why I said the series is stuck in a time loop and [Could have been better] is because we get static sprites that should be animated to reflect attacks.
SuperLink said:
Most of GameTrailer's cons you've listed are subjective or even a little ignorant (like them ignoring D/P being an early DS game made by a tiny developer, or the fact that you can check Type Matchups in game)

I know that; though I think he was referring to literally how much hp is taken off.
SuperLink said:
Also, why no Platinum? Ask anyone, the changes made to D/P are so significant that I enjoyed Platinum far more than the originals.

Don't quite care about Platinum that much [Despite the obvious improvements].
justonesp00lturn said:

You own all of those games, and your only argument relies on points brought up by someone else?

That's not my "only" argument. As for the rest of your post, I don't know what exactly has you so heated, but you should calm down. We're not discussing dire matters of state here.
justonesp00lturn said:
First of all, the idea that they don't push the DS is stupid.

It's not. For example, look at the introduction video of Lunar Knights compared to Diamond and Pearl, and perhaps you'll understand what I mean by "capabilities". Perhaps we simply don't expect certain things from certain companies.
justonesp00lturn said:
I didn't realize a game had to push the boundaries or else had points docked from it.

My argument was not that it should push the DS's capabilities just to push them, but because it could be a better game if it did. Most of your post revolves around excusing Nintendo, when things is, after so many years, and now on a powerful handheld, thinsg shouldn't be that similar. Battle cries of a Pokemon shouldn't sound so unevolved eg.

Edit this post:

[quote][b]SuperLink said:[/b] [quote]GameFreak are a [i]tiny[/i] development company, and Platinum/HeartGold/SoulSilver really fix these.[/quote]
Never stopped to think that, considering how huge Nintendo itself is.

[quote][b]SuperLink said:[/b] [quote]Pokémon is designed for children to be able to play, so this truly honestly isn't a problem in the single player game. Therefore....[/quote]
That may be so [Though the games are rated E], but children aren't the only ones that play it.

[quote][b]SuperLink said:[/b] [quote]ith genuine improvements and evolutions (especially in Platinum). [i]Plenty[/i] of other RPG franchises are [i]far[/i] more guilty of not changing than Pokémon.[/quote]
That doesn't really have much to do with my argument; I don't play other rpgs. The veterans thing wasn't meant to be taken as a con.

[quote][b]SuperLink said:[/b] [quote]Why? What would that offer?[/quote]
Because ,the console games are more realistic for me when it comes to the battle scenes an attacks. One reason why I said the series is stuck in a time loop and [Could have been better] is because we get static sprites that should be animated to reflect attacks.

[quote][b]SuperLink said:[/b] [quote]Most of GameTrailer's cons you've listed are subjective or even a little ignorant (like them ignoring D/P being an early DS game made by a tiny developer, or the fact that you can check Type Matchups in game)[/quote]
I know that; though I think he was referring to literally how much hp is taken off.

[quote][b]SuperLink said:[/b] [quote]Also, why no Platinum? Ask anyone, the changes made to D/P are so significant that I enjoyed Platinum far more than the originals. [/quote]
Don't quite care about Platinum that much [Despite the obvious improvements].[i][/i]

[quote][b]justonesp00lturn said:[/b] [quote]
You own all of those games, and your only argument relies on points brought up by someone else?[/quote]
That's not my "only" argument. As for the rest of your post, I don't know what exactly has you so heated, but you should calm down. We're not discussing dire matters of state here.

[quote][b]justonesp00lturn said:[/b] [quote]First of all, the idea that they don't push the DS is stupid.[/quote]
It's not. For example, look at the introduction video of [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=op_NVEDQlzU]Lunar Knights[/url] compared to Diamond and Pearl, and perhaps you'll understand what I mean by "capabilities". Perhaps we simply don't expect certain things from certain companies.

[quote][b]justonesp00lturn said:[/b] [quote]I didn't realize a game had to push the boundaries or else had points docked from it. [/quote] 
My argument was not that it should push the DS's capabilities just to push them, but because it could be a better game if it did. Most of your post revolves around excusing Nintendo, when things is, after so many years, and now on a powerful handheld, thinsg shouldn't be that similar. Battle cries of a Pokemon shouldn't sound so unevolved eg.

Save Changes Cancel Full Edit

JoshSL 13.04.2010#35

blinx-182 said:

Never stopped to think that, considering how huge Nintendo itself is.

Little known fact: GameFreak is actually a third party developer that has no legal attachments to Nintendo. Sure Nintendo own the rights to Pokémon now, but GameFreak still develop the games, and as a third party don't really get resources from Nintendo like a 2nd party might.

That may be so [Though the games are rated E], but children aren't the only ones that play it.

Doesn't change the fact the games are built with children in mind. They would rather delay and edit the game than release a version with an E10+ or 7+ rating.

realistic for me when it comes to the battle scenes an attacks. One reason why I said the series is stuck in a time loop and [Could have been better] is because we get static sprites that should be animated to reflect attacks.

I half expect this to happen in Black & White, but really the Stadium games just being ��£50 just to battle over and over (as well as play some awesome mini-games) really isn't something I'm too keen on.

I know that; though I think he was referring to literally how much hp is taken off.

That's incredibly picky, it could be used as a con for any stat-based game on the market.

Don't quite care about Platinum that much [Despite the obvious improvements].

Platinum is probably the culmination of the series, to this point.

It's not. For example, look at the introduction video of Lunar Knights compared to Diamond and Pearl, and perhaps you'll understand what I mean by "capabilities". Perhaps we simply don't expect certain things from certain companies.

Tons of DS games use anime or CGI intros. Any company can hire an animator and stick a movie file into a DS game, but that's just not Pokémon's direction. Pokémon's direction is simplicity.

My argument was not that it should push the DS's capabilities just to push them, but because it could be a better game if it did.

Plat/HG/SS do quite a good job of pushing the D/P engine, and Gen 5 will probably push the DS quite well.

Most of your post revolves around excusing Nintendo

Except it's not really got much to do with Nintendo, it's GameFreak.

when things is, after so many years, and now on a powerful handheld, thinsg shouldn't be that similar.

I'm willing to bet developing on GB was far easier than developing for a console with 3D abilities. Yeah similarity was a bit of a problem (for some people), but GameFreak have promised Gen 5 to be atleast a little revolutionary for the series, and revolutionary is a very big claim. They have no choice but to impress us Smilie

Battle cries of a Pokemon shouldn't sound so unevolved eg.

This I actually agree with. I wish they'd update 1st/2nd Gen Pokémon with more advanced soundboards.

( Edited 12.04.2010 22:26 by SuperLink )

Edit this post:

[quote][b]blinx-182 said:[/b] 
Never stopped to think that, considering how huge Nintendo itself is.[/quote]
Little known fact: GameFreak is actually a third party developer that has no legal attachments to Nintendo. Sure Nintendo own the rights to Pokémon now, but GameFreak still develop the games, and as a third party don't really get resources from Nintendo like a 2nd party might.

[quote]
That may be so [Though the games are rated E], but children aren't the only ones that play it.[/quote]
Doesn't change the fact the games are built with children in mind. They would rather delay and edit the game than release a version with an E10+ or 7+ rating.

[quote] realistic for me when it comes to the battle scenes an attacks. One reason why I said the series is stuck in a time loop and [Could have been better] is because we get static sprites that should be animated to reflect attacks.[/quote]
I half expect this to happen in Black & White, but really the Stadium games just being ��£50 just to battle over and over (as well as play some awesome mini-games) really isn't something I'm too keen on.

[quote]
I know that; though I think he was referring to literally how much hp is taken off.[/quote]
That's incredibly picky, it could be used as a con for any stat-based game on the market.

[quote]
Don't quite care about Platinum that much [Despite the obvious improvements].[/quote]
Platinum is probably the culmination of the series, to this point.

[quote]
It's not. For example, look at the introduction video of [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=op_NVEDQlzU]Lunar Knights[/url] compared to Diamond and Pearl, and perhaps you'll understand what I mean by "capabilities". Perhaps we simply don't expect certain things from certain companies.[/quote]
[i]Tons[/i] of DS games use anime or CGI intros. Any company can hire an animator and stick a movie file into a DS game, but that's just not Pokémon's direction. Pokémon's direction is simplicity.

[quote]
My argument was not that it should push the DS's capabilities just to push them, but because it could be a better game if it did.[/quote]
Plat/HG/SS do quite a good job of pushing the D/P engine, and Gen 5 will probably push the DS quite well.

[quote]Most of your post revolves around excusing Nintendo[/quote]
Except it's not really got much to do with Nintendo, it's GameFreak.

[quote]when things is, after so many years, and now on a powerful handheld, thinsg shouldn't be that similar.[/quote]
I'm willing to bet developing on GB was far easier than developing for a console with 3D abilities. Yeah similarity was a bit of a problem (for some people), but GameFreak have promised Gen 5 to be atleast a little revolutionary for the series, and revolutionary is a very big claim. They have no choice but to impress us ;)

[quote]Battle cries of a Pokemon shouldn't sound so unevolved eg.[/quote]
This I actually agree with. I wish they'd update 1st/2nd Gen Pokémon with more advanced soundboards.

Save Changes Cancel Full Edit

Twitter | C3 Writer/Moderator | Backloggery

crackedthesky 13.04.2010#36

blinx-182 said:
SuperLink said:
GameFreak are a tiny development company, and Platinum/HeartGold/SoulSilver really fix these.

Never stopped to think that, considering how huge Nintendo itself is.
SuperLink said:
Pokémon is designed for children to be able to play, so this truly honestly isn't a problem in the single player game. Therefore....

That may be so [Though the games are rated E], but children aren't the only ones that play it.
SuperLink said:
ith genuine improvements and evolutions (especially in Platinum). Plenty of other RPG franchises are far more guilty of not changing than Pokémon.

That doesn't really have much to do with my argument; I don't play other rpgs. The veterans thing wasn't meant to be taken as a con.
SuperLink said:
Why? What would that offer?

Because ,the console games are more realistic for me when it comes to the battle scenes an attacks. One reason why I said the series is stuck in a time loop and [Could have been better] is because we get static sprites that should be animated to reflect attacks.
SuperLink said:
Most of GameTrailer's cons you've listed are subjective or even a little ignorant (like them ignoring D/P being an early DS game made by a tiny developer, or the fact that you can check Type Matchups in game)

I know that; though I think he was referring to literally how much hp is taken off.
SuperLink said:
Also, why no Platinum? Ask anyone, the changes made to D/P are so significant that I enjoyed Platinum far more than the originals.

Don't quite care about Platinum that much [Despite the obvious improvements].
justonesp00lturn said:

You own all of those games, and your only argument relies on points brought up by someone else?

That's not my "only" argument. As for the rest of your post, I don't know what exactly has you so heated, but you should calm down. We're not discussing dire matters of state here.
justonesp00lturn said:
First of all, the idea that they don't push the DS is stupid.

It's not. For example, look at the introduction video of Lunar Knights compared to Diamond and Pearl, and perhaps you'll understand what I mean by "capabilities". Perhaps we simply don't expect certain things from certain companies.
justonesp00lturn said:
I didn't realize a game had to push the boundaries or else had points docked from it.

My argument was not that it should push the DS's capabilities just to push them, but because it could be a better game if it did. Most of your post revolves around excusing Nintendo, when things is, after so many years, and now on a powerful handheld, thinsg shouldn't be that similar. Battle cries of a Pokemon shouldn't sound so unevolved eg.
What gets me heated is when people make stupid arguments that don't make sense.
The introduction to Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories, features the first and only time a CG cutscene appeared on the Gameboy Advance. That doesn't automatically make that game better than every other game on the system, nor does it mean that the other companies weren't trying hard enough or weren't pushing the system to its limits.
The intros are probably kept in anime style so that the art direction is consistent across the games and the manga and the shows. Sure, they could render Dawn and Lucas in 3D, but that would look weird in comparison to seeing them on the show, and again, there's no point in doing it. The majority of people don't care about the intro to the game. I play the games to play them, not to watch snazzy intros. And I can name dozens of perfectly decent DS games that don't feature fully-rendered intros. I'm sorry, but this entire point is just stupid. It proves nothing.
I don't believe any part of my argument excused Nintendo for anything. Nintendo doesn't develop the games, GameFreak does. I may have gotten heated, but at least I didn't make things up and then argue against them.
I prefer the sprites to N64-style renderings of pokemon, personally. It would be different if this was a console series, but it isn't. It's portable. Everything is supposed to be miniaturized. Games use sprites all the time. Some current-gen console games even use sprites. This is another irrelevant point. especially since these Gen 5 games are going to be on the same system as Gen 4, meaning they will most likely have some connectivity. It would look pretty retarded if I traded a fully-rendered pokemon to my friend and watched it turn into a sprite before my eyes.
You seem to not have any care for the concept of consistency. The thing that separates these games from other series is that they directly connect to the games that were made years before. You can actually take a character from one game and pass it into another. Not many games offer that. If they were to radically alter the art style every time, it wouldn't work. It'd be far too inconsistent. They can make minor changes and still get away with it, but anything too major just wouldn't make sense.
I agree with you on the sound effects; I'm actually pretty unimpressed with the sound and the music in these games. I always have been. However, I should mention that I was playing the other day, and from across the room, my younger sister was able to tell me what random pokemon I had run into, based on its cry. That could be another example of keeping things similar for the veterans. But I don't know why they did what they did, so I won't base my argument on what could or might be the case.

Edit this post:

[quote][b]blinx-182 said:[/b] [quote][b]SuperLink said:[/b] [quote]GameFreak are a [i]tiny[/i] development company, and Platinum/HeartGold/SoulSilver really fix these.[/quote]
Never stopped to think that, considering how huge Nintendo itself is.

[quote][b]SuperLink said:[/b] [quote]Pokémon is designed for children to be able to play, so this truly honestly isn't a problem in the single player game. Therefore....[/quote]
That may be so [Though the games are rated E], but children aren't the only ones that play it.

[quote][b]SuperLink said:[/b] [quote]ith genuine improvements and evolutions (especially in Platinum). [i]Plenty[/i] of other RPG franchises are [i]far[/i] more guilty of not changing than Pokémon.[/quote]
That doesn't really have much to do with my argument; I don't play other rpgs. The veterans thing wasn't meant to be taken as a con.

[quote][b]SuperLink said:[/b] [quote]Why? What would that offer?[/quote]
Because ,the console games are more realistic for me when it comes to the battle scenes an attacks. One reason why I said the series is stuck in a time loop and [Could have been better] is because we get static sprites that should be animated to reflect attacks.

[quote][b]SuperLink said:[/b] [quote]Most of GameTrailer's cons you've listed are subjective or even a little ignorant (like them ignoring D/P being an early DS game made by a tiny developer, or the fact that you can check Type Matchups in game)[/quote]
I know that; though I think he was referring to literally how much hp is taken off.

[quote][b]SuperLink said:[/b] [quote]Also, why no Platinum? Ask anyone, the changes made to D/P are so significant that I enjoyed Platinum far more than the originals. [/quote]
Don't quite care about Platinum that much [Despite the obvious improvements].[i][/i]

[quote][b]justonesp00lturn said:[/b] [quote]
You own all of those games, and your only argument relies on points brought up by someone else?[/quote]
That's not my "only" argument. As for the rest of your post, I don't know what exactly has you so heated, but you should calm down. We're not discussing dire matters of state here.

[quote][b]justonesp00lturn said:[/b] [quote]First of all, the idea that they don't push the DS is stupid.[/quote]
It's not. For example, look at the introduction video of [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=op_NVEDQlzU]Lunar Knights[/url] compared to Diamond and Pearl, and perhaps you'll understand what I mean by "capabilities". Perhaps we simply don't expect certain things from certain companies.

[quote][b]justonesp00lturn said:[/b] [quote]I didn't realize a game had to push the boundaries or else had points docked from it. [/quote] 
My argument was not that it should push the DS's capabilities just to push them, but because it could be a better game if it did. Most of your post revolves around excusing Nintendo, when things is, after so many years, and now on a powerful handheld, thinsg shouldn't be that similar. Battle cries of a Pokemon shouldn't sound so unevolved eg.[/quote]

What gets me heated is when people make stupid arguments that don't make sense.

The introduction to Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories, features the first and only time a CG cutscene appeared on the Gameboy Advance. That doesn't automatically make that game better than every other game on the system, nor does it mean that the other companies weren't trying hard enough or weren't pushing the system to its limits.
The intros are probably kept in anime style so that the art direction is consistent across the games and the manga and the shows. Sure, they could render Dawn and Lucas in 3D, but that would look weird in comparison to seeing them on the show, and again, there's no point in doing it. The majority of people don't care about the intro to the game. I play the games to play them, not to watch snazzy intros. And I can name dozens of perfectly decent DS games that don't feature fully-rendered intros. I'm sorry, but this entire point is just stupid. It proves nothing.

I don't believe any part of my argument excused Nintendo for anything. Nintendo doesn't develop the games, GameFreak does. I may have gotten heated, but at least I didn't make things up and then argue against them.

I prefer the sprites to N64-style renderings of pokemon, personally. It would be different if this was a console series, but it isn't. It's portable. Everything is supposed to be miniaturized. Games use sprites all the time. Some current-gen console games even use sprites. This is another irrelevant point. especially since these Gen 5 games are going to be on the same system as Gen 4, meaning they will most likely have some connectivity. It would look pretty retarded if I traded a fully-rendered pokemon to my friend and watched it turn into a sprite before my eyes.
You seem to not have any care for the concept of consistency. The thing that separates these games from other series is that they directly connect to the games that were made years before. You can actually take a character from one game and pass it into another. Not many games offer that. If they were to radically alter the art style every time, it wouldn't work. It'd be far too inconsistent. They can make minor changes and still get away with it, but anything too major just wouldn't make sense.

I agree with you on the sound effects; I'm actually pretty unimpressed with the sound and the music in these games. I always have been. However, I should mention that I was playing the other day, and from across the room, my younger sister was able to tell me what random pokemon I had run into, based on its cry. That could be another example of keeping things similar for the veterans. But I don't know why they did what they did, so I won't base my argument on what could or might be the case.

Save Changes Cancel Full Edit

NNID: crackedthesky
My blog, mostly about writing: http://www.davidjlovato.com

JoshSL 13.04.2010#37

I agree with you on the sound effects; I'm actually pretty unimpressed with the sound and the music in these games. I always have been. However, I should mention that I was playing the other day, and from across the room, my younger sister was able to tell me what random pokemon I had run into, based on its cry. That could be another example of keeping things similar for the veterans. But I don't know why they did what they did, so I won't base my argument on what could or might be the case.

One thing I disagree with is the music. I think the music in Pokémon games is and always has been fantastic, I know the soundboards used aren't of the highest quality, but the compositions are great.
Cynthia Battle
Dialga/Palkia Battle

(And I can tell most Pokémon from their cries too Smilie this wouldn't change even if they updated the cries to sound more modern as they should)

Twitter | C3 Writer/Moderator | Backloggery

Ike 13.04.2010#38

Pokemanz = serious fucking business.

( Edited 12.04.2010 23:23 by Ike )

blinx-182 13.04.2010#39

SuperLink said:

I half expect this to happen in Black & White, but really the Stadium games just being ��£50 just to battle over and over (as well as play some awesome mini-games) really isn't something I'm too keen on.

You could say I want a hybrid of sorts. Even if they continue using sprites, I don't want them to be static when attacks are used. Little things like that are why I made the 'broken' comment.
SuperLink said:
That's incredibly picky, it could be used as a con for any stat-based game on the market.

Agreed. Somewhat.
SuperLink said:
Tons of DS games use anime or CGI intros. Any company can hire an animator and stick a movie file into a DS game, but that's just not Pokémon's direction. Pokémon's direction is simplicity.

Well it's a bit too 'simple' and backwards for me.
justonesp00lturn said:
What gets me heated is when people make stupid arguments that don't make sense.

I could say the same for you and lash out, which wouldn't make any sense either. When something doesn't make 'sense', it's usually because you're blinded from seeing over the fence. Try to remind yourself that this is a conversation over the internet; don't put so much energy into something this trivial.
justonesp00lturn said:
The introduction to Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories, features the first and only time a CG cutscene appeared on the Gameboy Advance. That doesn't automatically make that game better than every other game on the system

What I said doesn't have anything to do what's better on the system. It has to do with what's better in the series.
justonesp00lturn said:
The intros are probably kept in anime style so that the art direction is consistent across the games and the manga and the shows. Sure, they could render Dawn and Lucas in 3D, but that would look weird in comparison to seeing them on the show, and again, there's no point in doing it.

I also didn't mean rendering anything in 3d. Did you watch the Lunar Knights example? The Pokemon introductions featuring weird sounds are a bit laughable compared to something done by Studio 4c.
justonesp00lturn said:
The majority of people don't care about the intro to the game.

Let's also try to keep in mind that no one is in any position to argue for a 'majority'.

( Edited 12.04.2010 23:44 by blinx-182 )

Edit this post:

[quote][b]SuperLink said:[/b] [quote]
I half expect this to happen in Black & White, but really the Stadium games just being �����£50 just to battle over and over (as well as play some awesome mini-games) really isn't something I'm too keen on. [/quote]
You could say I want a hybrid of sorts. Even if they continue using sprites, I don't want them to be static when attacks are used. Little things like that are why I made the 'broken' comment.

[quote][b]SuperLink said:[/b] That's incredibly picky, it could be used as a con for any stat-based game on the market.[/quote]
Agreed. Somewhat.

[quote][b]SuperLink said:[/b] [i]Tons[/i] of DS games use anime or CGI intros. Any company can hire an animator and stick a movie file into a DS game, but that's just not Pokémon's direction. Pokémon's direction is simplicity.[/quote]
Well it's a bit too 'simple' and backwards for me.

[quote][b]justonesp00lturn said:[/b] What gets me heated is when people make stupid arguments that don't make sense.[/quote]
I could say the same for you and lash out, which wouldn't make any sense either. When something doesn't make 'sense', it's usually because you're blinded from seeing over the fence. Try to remind yourself that this is a conversation over the internet; don't put so much energy into something this trivial.

[quote][b]justonesp00lturn said:[/b] The introduction to Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories, features the first and only time a CG cutscene appeared on the Gameboy Advance. That doesn't automatically make that game better than every other game on the system[/quote]
What I said doesn't have anything to do what's better on the [b][i]system.[/b][/i] It has to do with what's better in the [b][i]series[/b][/i].

[quote][b]justonesp00lturn said:[/b] The intros are probably kept in anime style so that the art direction is consistent across the games and the manga and the shows. Sure, they could render Dawn and Lucas in 3D, but that would look weird in comparison to seeing them on the show, and again, there's no point in doing it.[/quote]
I also didn't mean rendering anything in 3d. Did you watch the Lunar Knights example? The Pokemon introductions featuring weird sounds are a bit [i]laughable[/i] compared to something done by Studio 4c.

[quote][b]justonesp00lturn said:[/b] The majority of people don't care about the intro to the game.[/quote] 
Let's also try to keep in mind that no one is in any position to argue for a 'majority'.

Save Changes Cancel Full Edit

JoshSL 13.04.2010#40

blinx-182 said:

Well it's a bit too 'simple' and backwards for me.

I just don't see Pokémon ever having an anime intro. 9/10 times they're complete with an orchestrated track or a J-Pop tune or some sort, and that doesn't really suit Pokémon's demographic. The current intros suit Pokémon's demographic.
Tell me, what do you think of HG/SS' intro?

The Pokemon introductions featuring weird sounds are a bit laughable compared to something done by Studio 4c.

This would be a legit complaint if Pokémon was trying to have a fully animated anime intro, which it doesn't, purposefully.

Let's also try to keep in mind that no one is in any position to argue for a 'majority'.

Well to be fair the majority in this case is the children's demographic, and they really don't care.

Also I know this isn't a great example, but if they start putting anime intros in Pokémon, there would be plenty of people who start hating it a lot more. Loads of people hate/disregard anything anime styled (just look at /v/) and thankfully the Pokemon games are comfortably nestled between "anime inspired" and "innocent game style".

( Edited 13.04.2010 01:39 by SuperLink )

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L 13.04.2010#41

SuperLink said:

One thing I disagree with is the music. I think the music in Pokémon games is and always has been fantastic, I know the soundboards used aren't of the highest quality, but the compositions are great.
Cynthia Battle
Dialga/Palkia Battle

Yep I agree, Pokemon has the kind of music that gives you super Nostalgia because it's so awesome.
Wow... so amazing Smilie

crackedthesky 13.04.2010#42

SuperLink said:
I agree with you on the sound effects; I'm actually pretty unimpressed with the sound and the music in these games. I always have been. However, I should mention that I was playing the other day, and from across the room, my younger sister was able to tell me what random pokemon I had run into, based on its cry. That could be another example of keeping things similar for the veterans. But I don't know why they did what they did, so I won't base my argument on what could or might be the case.

One thing I disagree with is the music. I think the music in Pokémon games is and always has been fantastic, I know the soundboards used aren't of the highest quality, but the compositions are great.
Cynthia Battle
Dialga/Palkia Battle
(And I can tell most Pokémon from their cries too this wouldn't change even if they updated the cries to sound more modern as they should)

The composition is great, it's the sounboards, like you said. It sounds so 8-bit. Drives me nuts.

blinx-182 said:
SuperLink said:

I half expect this to happen in Black & White, but really the Stadium games just being ��£50 just to battle over and over (as well as play some awesome mini-games) really isn't something I'm too keen on.

You could say I want a hybrid of sorts. Even if they continue using sprites, I don't want them to be static when attacks are used. Little things like that are why I made the 'broken' comment.
SuperLink said:
That's incredibly picky, it could be used as a con for any stat-based game on the market.

Agreed. Somewhat.
SuperLink said:
Tons of DS games use anime or CGI intros. Any company can hire an animator and stick a movie file into a DS game, but that's just not Pokémon's direction. Pokémon's direction is simplicity.

Well it's a bit too 'simple' and backwards for me.
justonesp00lturn said:
What gets me heated is when people make stupid arguments that don't make sense.

I could say the same for you and lash out, which wouldn't make any sense either. When something doesn't make 'sense', it's usually because you're blinded from seeing over the fence. Try to remind yourself that this is a conversation over the internet; don't put so much energy into something this trivial.
justonesp00lturn said:
The introduction to Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories, features the first and only time a CG cutscene appeared on the Gameboy Advance. That doesn't automatically make that game better than every other game on the system

What I said doesn't have anything to do what's better on the system. It has to do with what's better in the series.
justonesp00lturn said:
The intros are probably kept in anime style so that the art direction is consistent across the games and the manga and the shows. Sure, they could render Dawn and Lucas in 3D, but that would look weird in comparison to seeing them on the show, and again, there's no point in doing it.

I also didn't mean rendering anything in 3d. Did you watch the Lunar Knights example? The Pokemon introductions featuring weird sounds are a bit laughable compared to something done by Studio 4c.
justonesp00lturn said:
The majority of people don't care about the intro to the game.

Let's also try to keep in mind that no one is in any position to argue for a 'majority'.

Well, in offering absolutely no defense against the points I made and continuing to just make things up as you go, you've rendered any point to arguing with you a waste of time. Have fun talking about how terrible the games are and wishing they'd turn into a watered-down, battle-only version of what they once were.
SuperLink said:
blinx-182 said:

Well it's a bit too 'simple' and backwards for me.

I just don't see Pokémon ever having an anime intro. 9/10 times they're complete with an orchestrated track or a J-Pop tune or some sort, and that doesn't really suit Pokémon's demographic. The current intros suit Pokémon's demographic.
Tell me, what do you think of HG/SS' intro?
justonesp00lturn said:
The Pokemon introductions featuring weird sounds are a bit laughable compared to something done by Studio 4c.

This would be a legit complaint if Pokémon was trying to have a fully animated anime intro, which it doesn't, purposefully.
justonesp00lturn said:

Let's also try to keep in mind that no one is in any position to argue for a 'majority'.

Well to be fair the majority in this case is the children's demographic, and they really don't care.
Also I know this isn't a great example, but if they start putting anime intros in Pokémon, there would be plenty of people who start hating it a lot more. Loads of people hate/disregard anything anime styled (just look at /v/) and thankfully the Pokemon games are comfortably nestled between "anime inspired" and "innocent game style".
I got quoted for things I didn't say, lol. But I think that's a site error.

Edit this post:

[quote][b]SuperLink said:[/b] [quote]I agree with you on the sound effects; I'm actually pretty unimpressed with the sound and the music in these games. I always have been. However, I should mention that I was playing the other day, and from across the room, my younger sister was able to tell me what random pokemon I had run into, based on its cry. That could be another example of keeping things similar for the veterans. But I don't know why they did what they did, so I won't base my argument on what could or might be the case.[/quote]
One thing I disagree with is the music. I think the music in Pokémon games is and always has been fantastic, I know the soundboards used aren't of the highest quality, but the compositions are great.
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whX6TVUDF-E]Cynthia Battle[/url]
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=642AIUwadk8]Dialga/Palkia Battle[/url]

(And I can tell most Pokémon from their cries too ;) this wouldn't change even if they updated the cries to sound more modern as they should)[/quote]

The composition is great, it's the sounboards, like you said. It sounds so 8-bit. Drives me nuts.

[quote][b]blinx-182 said:[/b] [quote][b]SuperLink said:[/b] [quote]
I half expect this to happen in Black & White, but really the Stadium games just being ������£50 just to battle over and over (as well as play some awesome mini-games) really isn't something I'm too keen on. [/quote]
You could say I want a hybrid of sorts. Even if they continue using sprites, I don't want them to be static when attacks are used. Little things like that are why I made the 'broken' comment.

[quote][b]SuperLink said:[/b] That's incredibly picky, it could be used as a con for any stat-based game on the market.[/quote]
Agreed. Somewhat.

[quote][b]SuperLink said:[/b] [i]Tons[/i] of DS games use anime or CGI intros. Any company can hire an animator and stick a movie file into a DS game, but that's just not Pokémon's direction. Pokémon's direction is simplicity.[/quote]
Well it's a bit too 'simple' and backwards for me.

[quote][b]justonesp00lturn said:[/b] What gets me heated is when people make stupid arguments that don't make sense.[/quote]
I could say the same for you and lash out, which wouldn't make any sense either. When something doesn't make 'sense', it's usually because you're blinded from seeing over the fence. Try to remind yourself that this is a conversation over the internet; don't put so much energy into something this trivial.

[quote][b]justonesp00lturn said:[/b] The introduction to Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories, features the first and only time a CG cutscene appeared on the Gameboy Advance. That doesn't automatically make that game better than every other game on the system[/quote]
What I said doesn't have anything to do what's better on the [b][i]system.[/b][/i] It has to do with what's better in the [b][i]series[/b][/i].

[quote][b]justonesp00lturn said:[/b] The intros are probably kept in anime style so that the art direction is consistent across the games and the manga and the shows. Sure, they could render Dawn and Lucas in 3D, but that would look weird in comparison to seeing them on the show, and again, there's no point in doing it.[/quote]
I also didn't mean rendering anything in 3d. Did you watch the Lunar Knights example? The Pokemon introductions featuring weird sounds are a bit [i]laughable[/i] compared to something done by Studio 4c.

[quote][b]justonesp00lturn said:[/b] The majority of people don't care about the intro to the game.[/quote] 
Let's also try to keep in mind that no one is in any position to argue for a 'majority'.[/quote]

Well, in offering absolutely no defense against the points I made and continuing to just make things up as you go, you've rendered any point to arguing with you a waste of time. Have fun talking about how terrible the games are and wishing they'd turn into a watered-down, battle-only version of what they once were.[quote][b]SuperLink said:[/b] [quote][b]blinx-182 said:[/b] 
Well it's a bit too 'simple' and backwards for me.[/quote]
I just don't see Pokémon ever having an anime intro. 9/10 times they're complete with an orchestrated track or a J-Pop tune or some sort, and that doesn't really suit Pokémon's demographic. The current intros suit Pokémon's demographic.
Tell me, what do you think of HG/SS' intro?

[quote][b]justonesp00lturn said:[/b] The Pokemon introductions featuring weird sounds are a bit [i]laughable[/i] compared to something done by Studio 4c.[/quote]
This would be a legit complaint [i]if[/i] Pokémon was trying to have a fully animated anime intro, which it doesn't, [i]purposefully[/i].

[quote][b]justonesp00lturn said:[/b] 
Let's also try to keep in mind that no one is in any position to argue for a 'majority'.[/quote]
Well to be fair the majority in this case is the children's demographic, and they really don't care.

Also I know this isn't a great example, but if they start putting anime intros in Pokémon, there would be plenty of people who start hating it a lot [i]more[/i]. [i]Loads[/i] of people hate/disregard anything anime styled (just look at /v/) and thankfully the Pokemon games are comfortably nestled between "anime inspired" and "innocent game style".[/quote]

I got quoted for things I didn't say, lol. But I think that's a site error.

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NNID: crackedthesky
My blog, mostly about writing: http://www.davidjlovato.com

a lax (guest) 17.04.2010#43

where can i see some of the new pokemon for black and white version