Feature | Beyond the Cube Special: Unlucky XIII Makes for the True ‘Final’ Fantasy?

Couldn't disagree with you more about FFVI being the Pinaccle.

FFVII brought with it a new cinematic feel, with a story that wasn't afraid to cast you the heroes as terrorists. Putting you in a very morally grey area. The backdrops even today look fantastic. The soundtrack is arguably Nobuo Uematsu finest work, its a toss up between that and FFIX. Limit Breaks were introduced, the materia system was also a breath of fresh air and the difficulty was ramped up compared to VI with a much welcome decrease in the number of random battles to boot. The mini games were excellent and the character's story arcs were intertwined in a much more enjoyable and natural way. The Villain was also much more interesting than the two dimensional Kefka.

FFVIII was a step down, the battle system was poor and the draw/junction system ruined the game. The villain went back to being 2 dimensional, evil for evils sake. Plus every time you introduce time travel, you leave plot holes everywhere. I still like FFVIII but it has more flaws than a lot of the other games. I rate it on about the same level as FFVI. 

FFIX is great, probably just edges VII when it comes to the soundtrack. The art style is amazing, when i first saw the backdrops in battle in the town, I thought this looks a bit odd. Then it hit me that they'd designed it to look like a stage production. The whole game looks like watching Final Fantasy IV played out on stage, it fills you with so much nostalgia. The battle system while better than FFVIII(not difficult) didn't  get limit breaks right, it kinda just felt like an improved FFVI. Except you learn abilities from weapons not Espers.

FFX nailed the battle system, and FFX-2 pretty much perfected it. The story was also pretty entertaining, if they cut one scene out it would go from pretty to very entertaining(That god awful whistling scene). it also proved linear is fine as long the story and gameplay are fun. 

FFXI was awful. It should have just been called FF online.

FFXII was only a little bit of an improvement, the battle system is better than FFXI (but that's kinda like saying drinking Urine is better than diarrhea). The main character is the second worst character in RPG history(emil from ToS being the worst), an interesting political drama is ruined by the worst pacing I've ever seen in an RPG, and bland environments ruin the memory of FFtactics advance.

FFXIII, the linearity isn't the problem its the battle system. Its just really, really bad. Like impossibly bad. I thought FFXI was atrocious but this battle system really ruined the series for me and nailed the coffin shut. 


( Edited 12.01.2013 04:27 by JayUK )

Whoa, whoa, whoa...FFVI and FFIX are two of my favourites. You're not a fan of FFVI compared to other FFs?

Also, I'm intrigued to hear your thoughts on FFXIII's battle system! Sounds like you're quite passionate about it

Adam Riley said:
Whoa, whoa, whoa...FFVI and FFIX are two of my favourites. You're not a fan of FFVI compared to other FFs?

I like FFVI but I believe calling it the Pinnacle is a stretch. I loved the Final Fantasy series(IV through X-2, yes I liked FFX-2) so when I say I rate one above another we're not dealing with very big margins. I like VI and VIII a lot, but they both have their issues in the gameplay department and they both have really weak villains. 

This is what order I'd put them in by the way.
VII = IX = X > X-2 > VI = VIII > IV = V 

Also, I'm intrigued to hear your thoughts on FFXIII's battle system! Sounds like you're quite passionate about it

My main issue is I think it came about as a compromise, some people liked FFXII's system and others wanted a return to a more traditional system. So what we got was Square-Enix trying to appeal to everyone. You've got the two camps, people who liked being able to customise the AI and those who really didn't. So what we end up with is a game that allows you to customise the AI a bit, but makes the difficulty level so low that you don't really have to for a pretty big portion of the game. So you're annoying people who like FFX's combat because it doesn't feel as though you're in direct control and you're annoying the FFXII fanbase because you don't have as much indirect control. The linearity of a game really isn't noticeable as long as you're having fun, if you're bored with the battle system that's when you start picking apart the little things.


( Edited 12.01.2013 04:18 by JayUK )

JayUK said:
Everything JayUK said

I agree on just about everything you said Jay.  I don't like X much outside of the battle system(actually, I hate it outside the battle sytem).  From what I hear XII's BS is like Xenoblade's, which I love.  So I might have liked it...

IX is just FF on drugs.  It takes all the good parts - AND the bad parts - of the series and makes them all incrediblex10.

Your first comment reminded me how landmarking(is this a word?) and ground breaking XII is.  Both of these soundtracks are beautiful.  Though in one place, XII has better field music - IX has OFTEN put me to sleep while training/grinding with its lullaby field music xD.

You absolutely nailed it with XIII.  Battle system is the true bad apple that spoils the game.  There are some good parts to its story(Hope/Snow arch) but its ultimately forgettable.  Oh and contrary to everyone else I've ever spoken to hating her, I love Vanille :p

Lastly, its so interesting to me that Dragon Quest, a game as old as FF, has that "traditional" RPG gameplay yet it so seamlessly transitions from generation to generation, home console to portable console and country to country.  Why does Final Fantasy suffer so much?  Did Sq.En hire George Lucas to work on the series after IX?  He's well known for his "If it ain't broke, break it" philosophy. 

EDIT: inb4 Azurado sees topic

( Edited 12.01.2013 12:18 by IkeFE )

IkeFE said:

JayUK said:
Everything JayUK said

I agree on just about everything you said Jay.  I don't like X much outside of the battle system(actually, I hate it outside the battle sytem).  From what I hear XII's BS is like Xenoblade's, which I love.  So I might have liked it...

You might like it, I've heard that the international version improves the game a lot(too bad it was only released in Japan). The worst part of FFXII is the story's pacing. I personally don't like programming the AI, its a lot of effort which is made more of a pain that you're forced to start off with awful AI and limited options.

If Final Fantasy ended what would Spoony rant about? 
http://spoonyexperiment.com/

This is what order I'd put them in by the way.
VII = IX = X > X-2 > VI = VIII > IV = V 

Maths is fun 

I think what might be a good idea is that if when Beyond the Cube touches on FFXIII-2 in the near future, there's a poll attached so people can vote on their favourite mainline FF entry

I'm not interested in Final fantasy games anymore, they don't have the emotions, engaging stories, fun battle systems/reward systems of the old games, I disagree with pretty much every 10/10 and 9/10 review of 12, I found it to be an annoying star wars clone with mmo battles, which I'm not ia fan of. Nothing captured my attention on that game. The villains all looked the same, there was nothing unique about their appearance or attitudes. FF13 was actually worse, the linear paths killed it and the story was far too convoluted and confusing for me to enjoy it, you literally have to read a log entry for every tidbit introduced in the game if you want any kind of understanding of its story, and from my understanding FINAL FANTASY GAMES ARE MEANT TO TELL THE STORY, NOT HAVE YOU RESEARCH IT. I'm an old fan but no longer a fan, let the franchise die and rest in peace, if I want a game with gorgeous graphics there is battlefield 3, if i want a game with turn based combat there is every persona game and multiple tactical games to play which are more fun than 13

Anyone picking up Lightning Returns then?

Of course. Started it last night.

I'll be intrigued to see where it charts on Monday. Reviews have been very middling, but the power of advertising might conquer all...that is, if there's been a lot of advertising??

What do you think about the 7/10 score for FFXIII? I nearly dropped to a 6, but I did enjoy it the more the game went on...

The FF name might help it a bit, but wherever LR charts, it won't be for long. It'll do poorly and will price crash quickly. Retailers already slashed it below £30 before release.

Of course, scores are subjective, but I would probably have settled with a 6 for XIII, maybe even 5. There was just too much wrong with XIII in the end. It was too nonsensical, too melodramatic. It relied on the Datalog to convey the story, where players were simply passive to the whole goings on, in a world where there was no reason to return to any previous locations because of this linearity idea that made every chapter out to be nothing but a painting to look at.

Despite the battle system faults, it was probably the best part of the game - fast and flashy. But it was a step back after XII. Playing XII after XIII made me realise that. So much characterisation and strong storytelling was lost. As a mainline FF game, it's a big disappointment after everything that had come before it.

I think your 5/6 is equivalent to my 6/7, possibly! If we still did half integers it would have definitely been a 6.5...

I know what you mean about the way the story was dished out. Everything seemed to start off really fast-paced, but quickly dropped into endless corridors of running / dodging enemies without any real connection to the story. Very detached experience. Whether it grew on me more because of the simple fact it was an FF game and my deep love of the series egged me on, or just because it actually did get better as it went on, I'm not entirely sure