Paper Mario: Sticker Star Page 1

Darkflame 01.12.2012#1

Guess I'll buy BiS instead then as I didnt play that one yet.

" all eyes turn to AlphaDream for a new, true RPG with Mario & Luigi 4."

hell yes.

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jesusraz 01.12.2012#2

I love Bowser's Inside Story, and am just putting the finishing touches to a review at the moment Smilie

I've just been checking other Sticker Star review scores and wow, the range is all over the place! Seems I've given it the lowest score according to Metacritic Smilie but that's really how I felt, and it looks like there are other reviewers talking about how frustrated they were. They shouldn't have messed with the formula Smilie

Adam Riley [ Director :: Cubed3 ]

UNITE714: Weekly Prayers | Bible Verses

Mandown 01.12.2012#3

So disappointing...

Thanks.

jesusraz 01.12.2012#4

The phrase 'style over substance' springs to mind. Even then, though, I don't why the usual humour seems so lacking. I've been playing Bowser's Inside Story again recently and it's laugh-out-loud funny at times.

Red XIII said:
I actually like the idea of taking away the level up system. Not making me grind and keeping the game moving along is great.

Wait until you try it...You'll quickly want the levelling-up system back. In Sticker Star, you have to run around finding loads of stickers instead of gaining experience from fights to get stronger.

The cute animation for pulling stickers off anything (walls, bushes, trees, etc) is nice at first, but quickly grows tiresome as you need hundreds of the damn things and just multiply the two seconds it takes to pull each one off and you'll realise how much time is wasted.

Also, you don't always know if you've got enough of the strongest stickers to overcome a certain big boss (or even random mid-level bad guys). Therefore, there will be more than one time where you just have to let Mario run out of energy because trying to escape isn't that easy (or just isn't possible in some cases). This happens in RPGs, I suppose, but at least you're always able to attack. Here, the game gives a token random single sticker if totally out, but if you still have some left...ones that aren't good for attack (defence items or health mushrooms) then you don't get anything, meaning fights just drag out until your supply is finally out and you DO get a cursory attack item, or you die. Sounds a barrel of laughs, right?

Then there is the matter of the special stickers mentioned in the review -- where if you use them out of sheer excitement to see what wacky effects they have on enemies you're screwed and get stuck until having to track back and find the 'secret store' to buy more.

Back-tracking, wow, SO annoying.

You may read this and think I was overly generous with a 6...but there are redeeming factors, and it starts to grow on you after the third or fourth world. However, by that time most would have likely given up, shaking their head at Miyamoto-san for kerbing Intelligent Systems' creative flow. You know WHY that has happened, right? It's because Super Paper Mario sold more than the previous two PM games Smilie

( Edited 01.12.2012 10:32 by Adam Riley )

Edit this post:

The phrase 'style over substance' springs to mind. Even then, though, I don't why the usual humour seems so lacking. I've been playing Bowser's Inside Story again recently and it's laugh-out-loud funny at times.

[quote]Red XIII said:<br/>I actually like the idea of taking away the level up system. Not making me grind and keeping the game moving along is great.[/quote]
Wait until you try it...You'll quickly want the levelling-up system back. In Sticker Star, you have to run around finding loads of stickers instead of gaining experience from fights to get stronger.

The cute animation for pulling stickers off anything (walls, bushes, trees, etc) is nice at first, but quickly grows tiresome as you need hundreds of the damn things and just multiply the two seconds it takes to pull each one off and you'll realise how much time is wasted.

Also, you don't always know if you've got enough of the strongest stickers to overcome a certain big boss (or even random mid-level bad guys). Therefore, there will be more than one time where you just have to let Mario run out of energy because trying to escape isn't that easy (or just isn't possible in some cases). This happens in RPGs, I suppose, but at least you're always able to attack. Here, the game gives a token random single sticker if totally out, but if you still have some left...ones that aren't good for attack (defence items or health mushrooms) then you don't get anything, meaning fights just drag out until your supply is finally out and you DO get a cursory attack item, or you die. Sounds a barrel of laughs, right?

Then there is the matter of the special stickers mentioned in the review -- where if you use them out of sheer excitement to see what wacky effects they have on enemies you're screwed and get stuck until having to track back and find the 'secret store' to buy more.

Back-tracking, wow, SO annoying.

You may read this and think I was overly generous with a 6...but there are redeeming factors, and it starts to grow on you after the third or fourth world. However, by that time most would have likely given up, shaking their head at Miyamoto-san for kerbing Intelligent Systems' creative flow. You know WHY that has happened, right? It's because Super Paper Mario sold more than the previous two PM games :roll:

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Adam Riley [ Director :: Cubed3 ]

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JoshSL 01.12.2012#5

What a huge shame :c I'll prolly still get it, but all my excitement has died, simply not fair.

Adam Riley said:
You know WHY that has happened, right? It's because Super Paper Mario sold more than the previous two PM games

Wasn't that simply because it was on Wii, rather than because it used more ~Mario~ elements?

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Azuardo 01.12.2012#6

I've seen a few 6/6.5 out of 10 and 3/3.5 out of 5, plus a lot of reader reviews at GameFAQs have been very disappointed, giving it 3/10 in cases. A game that once was one of the reasons I might have picked up a 3DS when it was announced has been completely crossed off my list now. Like you say, all eyes are on the fourth game of Mario & Luigi now - a fantastic humorous RPG series, that this game should have been.

JoshSL 01.12.2012#7

Is a fourth M&L game definitely happening?

And will Miyamoto be ruining that one too?

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Ikana 01.12.2012#8

Huge shame, I was really looking forward to this. Smilie Ah well, I still need to get Bowser's Inside Story too, so that'll have to fuel my Maro RPG cravings for now!
Thanks for the review!

GreythaGreat 01.12.2012#9

This is so disappointing. The first two Paper Mario games were amazing RPG's. The series is really going down hill Smilie

If something isn't broken - don't fix it. We've seen this with the 2D Mario titles, I have no idea why Nintendo won't apply this same principle to the Paper Mario games...

"Do a Barrel Roll!"

NSMB2 sucks though (guest) 01.12.2012#10

I have to admit this is getting slightly ridiculous.

There's nothing wrong with dispensing a score you think the game deserves. Yet you seem to rationalize the lower score by somewhat overstating the degree of offense committed, say, by the sticker system and lack of conventional experience-based growth. There's hardly anything "frustrating due to their implementation" about picking a sticker and attacking with it.

Since you mention backtracking, is it fair to say that The Thousand Year Door was just as egregiously designed in this regard? Is it not relevant to note that the segmented level design makes "backtracking" about as obnoxious as using "Fly" in the Pokemon overworld? Perhaps you could more accurately fault the seclusion of 'thing stickers' in elusive, doorway-bereft grottos around the map since, while a problem easily remedied by always trying to keep one or two door stickers handy, it is an understandably beleaguering system. "Backtracking" is hardly an issue.

Why emphasize the shorter areas which can be "breezed through in minutes" without noting how some can take up to an hour? Why not emphasize the level variety and creativity unless you simply have a bone to pick?

The actual problems with this game - less concentration on dialogue, some maddening and unintuitive puzzles ("THAT was the solution?"), little character variety and some serious nerve in invisible block placement - would have been more appropriately cited than "bactracking and stickers". As the reviewer the content here is entirely at your discretion, but you seem to eschew rightfully calling out more important, almost insultingly bold artistic decisions in favor of knocking features which are fairly tame, considering.

God 02.12.2012#11

i felt playing one paper mario was enough. played th super one quite a bit, bu disappointing yeah.

...but that japanese name-san, is that really necessary? it looks so silly in a wall of englsh text. I don see a reason for either. like you'd write monsieur Ancel or whatever his name is eveytime yo write an article on Rayman...?

You are not alone. I am here with you. Though we're far apart...you're always in my heart. Love u!

jesusraz 02.12.2012#12

NSMB2 sucks though (guest) said:
There's nothing wrong with dispensing a score you think the game deserves. Yet you seem to rationalize the lower score by somewhat overstating the degree of offense committed, say, by the sticker system and lack of conventional experience-based growth. There's hardly anything "frustrating due to their implementation" about picking a sticker and attacking with it.

I'm stating the majority of the issues that really made sure I didn't enjoy the adventure as much as I really wanted to. I can see what the design team was trying to do with the changes, but it all just falls flat on its face.

Since you mention backtracking, is it fair to say that The Thousand Year Door was just as egregiously designed in this regard? Is it not relevant to note that the segmented level design makes "backtracking" about as obnoxious as using "Fly" in the Pokemon overworld?

It all depends, really, as in some games it doesn't seem like a chore. There are far too many elements in PM: SS that felt stale, so the whole idea of having to traipse back and forth for damn special stickers that I had used for fun was annoying. The same goes for popping back to the harbour early in the game on what seemed like a far too regular basis.

Perhaps you could more accurately fault the seclusion of 'thing stickers' in elusive, doorway-bereft grottos around the map since, while a problem easily remedied by always trying to keep one or two door stickers handy, it is an understandably beleaguering system. "Backtracking" is hardly an issue.

As I say, the backtracking was indeed an issue for me in this game. Why? I touch upon it slightly above, but 'backtracking' in itself isn't always bad. The points you mention are equally valid. Some of the puzzles were rather obtuse (for instance the one where stickers are required to open certain doors in a stage), and yes, having to always have spare door stickers to unlock secrets was a bugbear, but certainly not worth mentioning in the review at large due to them normally being mere extra bonuses.

Why emphasize the shorter areas which can be "breezed through in minutes" without noting how some can take up to an hour? Why not emphasize the level variety and creativity unless you simply have a bone to pick?

I did have a bone to pick, and it would be the same bone other fans of the first two PMs would want to pick. Sure, some levels differ in length, but certain stages don't even deserve that name - if going for the SMB3 or SMW style level layout, you tend to expect full levels at each stop (unless it's a Mushroom house, obviously, when you know it's a bonus stage). Here you're fooled into thinking there's more on offer than there actually is. Even the longer levels, though, are not exactly challenging. You have NO reason to fight enemies any more due to the lack of levelling-up, and the battles aren't fun this time (in my opinion the balance is a bit off - not as smooth as before), so it's a case of charge through the standard fare stages, sometimes coming across some clever ideas (there are positives - 6/10 is after all 'above average'), and quickly grab the comet piece. Rinse and repeat.

The actual problems with this game - less concentration on dialogue, some maddening and unintuitive puzzles ("THAT was the solution?"), little character variety and some serious nerve in invisible block placement - would have been more appropriately cited than "bactracking and stickers".

I can live with the lower amount of dialogue. There are still the Toads to talk to, Kersti always has some extra advice if you chat to her, etc. It is a bit sad that Miyamoto-san has had such a strong influence on the way Intelligent Systems handled the final game, though. The puzzles element is what I meant before about the game not quite knowing what it wants to be. Have you read the comments about how Miyamoto was pleased with the changes put into Tingle's Rosey Rupee Land? Maybe he didn't read the reviews discussing some of that game's biggest weaknesses Smilie

As the reviewer the content here is entirely at your discretion, but you seem to eschew rightfully calling out more important, almost insultingly bold artistic decisions in favor of knocking features which are fairly tame, considering.

Bold artistic decisions? I didn't notice any, unless you mean the special stickers that I feel could have been developed far better. If they wanted to make it more like a traditional point-and-click with platforming mixed in, that could have worked...but they didn't, and in the end I felt the whole thing was a pretty mess. 'Style over substance' is the comment I put in a previous message, and I still stand by that.

I can't cover every tiny little detail in a review, and it's good to have discussion like this in the comments Smilie

Edit this post:

[quote][b]NSMB2 sucks though (guest) said:[/b]<br/>There's nothing wrong with dispensing a score you think the game deserves. Yet you seem to rationalize the lower score by somewhat overstating the degree of offense committed, say, by the sticker system and lack of conventional experience-based growth. There's hardly anything "frustrating due to their implementation" about picking a sticker and attacking with it.[/quote]
I'm stating the majority of the issues that really made sure I didn't enjoy the adventure as much as I really wanted to. I can see what the design team was trying to do with the changes, but it all just falls flat on its face.

[quote]Since you mention backtracking, is it fair to say that The Thousand Year Door was just as egregiously designed in this regard? Is it not relevant to note that the segmented level design makes "backtracking" about as obnoxious as using "Fly" in the Pokemon overworld?[/quote]
It all depends, really, as in some games it doesn't seem like a chore. There are far too many elements in PM: SS that felt stale, so the whole idea of having to traipse back and forth for damn special stickers that I had used for fun was annoying. The same goes for popping back to the harbour early in the game on what seemed like a far too regular basis.

[quote]Perhaps you could more accurately fault the seclusion of 'thing stickers' in elusive, doorway-bereft grottos around the map since, while a problem easily remedied by always trying to keep one or two door stickers handy, it is an understandably beleaguering system. "Backtracking" is hardly an issue.[/quote]
As I say, the backtracking was indeed an issue for me in this game. Why? I touch upon it slightly above, but 'backtracking' in itself isn't always bad. The points you mention are equally valid. Some of the puzzles were rather obtuse (for instance the one where stickers are required to open certain doors in a stage), and yes, having to always have spare door stickers to unlock secrets was a bugbear, but certainly not worth mentioning in the review at large due to them normally being mere extra bonuses.

[quote]Why emphasize the shorter areas which can be "breezed through in minutes" without noting how some can take up to an hour? Why not emphasize the level variety and creativity unless you simply have a bone to pick?[/quote]
I did have a bone to pick, and it would be the same bone other fans of the first two PMs would want to pick. Sure, some levels differ in length, but certain stages don't even deserve that name - if going for the SMB3 or SMW style level layout, you tend to expect full levels at each stop (unless it's a Mushroom house, obviously, when you know it's a bonus stage). Here you're fooled into thinking there's more on offer than there actually is. Even the longer levels, though, are not exactly challenging. You have NO reason to fight enemies any more due to the lack of levelling-up, and the battles aren't fun this time (in my opinion the balance is a bit off - not as smooth as before), so it's a case of charge through the standard fare stages, sometimes coming across some clever ideas (there are positives - 6/10 is after all 'above average'), and quickly grab the comet piece. Rinse and repeat.

[quote]The actual problems with this game - less concentration on dialogue, some maddening and unintuitive puzzles ("THAT was the solution?"), little character variety and some serious nerve in invisible block placement - would have been more appropriately cited than "bactracking and stickers".[/quote]
I can live with the lower amount of dialogue. There are still the Toads to talk to, Kersti always has some extra advice if you chat to her, etc. It is a bit sad that Miyamoto-san has had such a strong influence on the way Intelligent Systems handled the final game, though. The puzzles element is what I meant before about the game not quite knowing what it wants to be. Have you read the comments about how Miyamoto was pleased with the changes put into Tingle's Rosey Rupee Land? Maybe he didn't read the reviews discussing some of that game's biggest weaknesses :roll:

[quote]As the reviewer the content here is entirely at your discretion, but you seem to eschew rightfully calling out more important, almost insultingly bold artistic decisions in favor of knocking features which are fairly tame, considering.[/quote]
Bold artistic decisions? I didn't notice any, unless you mean the special stickers that I feel could have been developed far better. If they wanted to make it more like a traditional point-and-click with platforming mixed in, that could have worked...but they didn't, and in the end I felt the whole thing was a pretty mess. 'Style over substance' is the comment I put in a previous message, and I still stand by that.

I can't cover every tiny little detail in a review, and it's good to have discussion like this in the comments :)

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Adam Riley [ Director :: Cubed3 ]

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EdEN 03.12.2012#13

Surprised at the low score. I've played the game for 7 hours now and I'm loving it. Did a 3 hour run one night until I realized it was VERY late hahaha.

The fights are fun and I'm constantly managing stickers so I'm ready for any hard fight. Sure, you only get coins... but you also get some special stickers unique to some characters, thus allowing you to complete the sticker museum.

This game seems to have broken a "love it or hate it" review burst, so be careful about buying/skipping the game after reading a review.

jesusraz 03.12.2012#14

EdEN said:
The fights are fun and I'm constantly managing stickers so I'm ready for any hard fight.

Really didn't feel it, as I'm sure you've gathered. The battle mechanic even seemed tweaked. I used to like having to hold the attack button when using the hammer, for instance, releasing at just the right time. Now you have to wait and hit it once, hoping to get a better result with correct timing of the depress. Minor change, sure, but it was yet another niggle that added to the pile.

Sure, you only get coins... but you also get some special stickers unique to some characters, thus allowing you to complete the sticker museum.

Really not an incentive for me. Filling the museum seemed like such a boring, pointless venture, and getting coins in return for battles was also another fruitless venture, which is why I spent most of the time dodging nearly every fight possible to reach the end goal.

This game seems to have broken a "love it or hate it" review burst, so be careful about buying/skipping the game after reading a review.

That is very true. I'd probably say that anyone who enjoyed Super Paper Mario may well like this. Those that liked the series for its RPG side, though, it probably won't be to their tastes. Obviously that's not a clear cut truth, as with any review!

Adam Riley [ Director :: Cubed3 ]

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