2D > 3D

I can't help but notice something witj the DS, & it's begginning to concern me, I know the DS has only been around for about 2 years, but we havn't seen that many fully 3D games at all.

Racing games are fairly easy to do well in 3D, such as Mario Kart, Ridge Racer, etc. But I'm talking about fully 3D games on DS. After seeing Super Mario 64 DS, an immense 3D Adventure for DS on DAY ONE of release, I was pretty sure DS would be able to do 3D Adventures completely fine. But now I'm starting to get disbeliefws, & I've had them for a while....

Metroid Prime Hunters is a great example, it's an incredibly short game, with hardly any enemies or bosses & simple maps, I start to get the feeling that graphics tak priority over gameplay in games like this, it has nice FMV & brilliant graphics, but the game is short as I said before, hardly any different enemies or bosses. Does this mean that on DS, a game with good graphics has limited gameplay? But then I remember how brilliant SM64 was on DS, great graphics & huge game, so what's wrong? I think developers just can't be arsed, which is concerning, as 3D games could work so well. I know there are games like FFIII & Phantom Hourglass coming soon, but next to SM64 that makes only 3 full 3D DS games, & PH & FFIII are top down games, so some may not even consider them fully 3D...

What's wrong with 3D games on DS? Mario 64 impressed me on launch day with it's graphics, nothing has impressed me in the same way ever since! Starfox Command has great graphics, but I can't help but think the game won't have full voice acting like most Starfox games do, does it?

& wasn't there a game coming to DS with great graphics called ASH or something?

What's wrong with 3D games on DS?

No analogue stick, PS1 3D capabilities.

Grumbler said:

Whats wrong with 3D games on DS?

No analogue stick, PS1 3D capabilities.

You really crack me up.
It has better capabilities than PS1, there just aren't enough developers willing to spend enough time and cost on development to actually make a game look that good

Grumbler said:
No analogue stick, PS1 3D capabilities.

This current generation of console has gotten everyone used to playing games at 60fps/30fps.

If the DS is going do that as well, the games are going to look considerably worse than PS1/N64 games.

No-one wants a game that chugs along at 20fps, its considered unplayable.

Thats why we'll probably never seen a game that looks as good as gran turismo 2 or Tekken 3 on the DS.

What grumbler said.
That said you did forget a few 3D gems

Nintendogs, Animal crossing, Tony Hawks Sk8ter/Downhilljam,Sonic rush(kind of)

It dosn't really matter if there 3D or not though if the games good fun like say ouendan which barly uses 3D then it dosn't matter.

f | j | D said:
This current generation of console has gotten everyone used to playing games at 60fps/30fps.If the DS is going do that as well, the games are going to look considerably worse than PS1/N64 games.No-one wants a game that chugs along at 20fps, its considered unplayable. Thats why well probably never seen a game that looks as good as gran turismo 2 or Tekken 3 on the DS.

Nanostray looked better than both of those and it moves along quite nicely at 30fps, although with a tiny bit of slowdown at times, and SM64 looked fucking awesome and definitely better than Tekken 3 and was also running at at least 30 fps..

What's funny?

It has a graphics chip similar to the GBA's for the bottom screen, and one more similar to the PS1's than to the N64's for the top screen. And they have seperate graphics RAM.

That's why to get 3D on both screens you can only get 30FPS because they both go off the same chip, which draws each alternate frame for the bottom screen and sends it as a bitmap.

You can see the 3D chips more like the PS1 or Saturns because there's no native texture filtering, anti-aliasing and and inaccurate 3D geometry and texture mapping.

( Edited on 12.11.2006 17:21 by Grumbler )

Grumbler said:

Whats wrong with 3D games on DS?

No analogue stick, PS1 3D capabilities.

In a nutshell.

The problem is that the DS was touted as a portable N64, in terms of power. I knew that was bollocks back then, but no-one believed me. Now here we here. Mario 64 only used just over half of the N64's power (Miyamoto said that), That's why the DS was able to pull off a slightly enhanced version. You'll never see a spot on version of OoT, for instance. Just look at the DS Zelda, it's decidedly old school. Not saying that's a bad thing in itself, just saying there's a reason for that- it couldn't handle a proper 3D Zelda. Not very well, at any rate.

I just don't get why Super Mario 64 looked & worked so well on DS, yet we've yet to see another 3D game as good? We KNOW the DS can do Mario 64, it's been out for about 2 years now, & I'v got it, & it has good graphics, & a good frame rate, so I don't see what's stopping people from making more games like that.

Ah yes, I forgot about Nintendogs & AC for a sec, I woudldn't consider either an adventure game, & the things you can do in Nintendogs are limited to only a few things...

Game like Nintendogs & Mario64 do look a lot sharper than most N64 games.

& as I said, does anyone know if StarFox Command is fully voiced?

Star Fox command is not voiced, except by weird babbles kind of like Animal Crossing.

And no, I don't think the DS is a PS1, though I'd agree it is less powerful than an N64. I'd like to see the PS1 try to do what the DS has done with MK DS and SM64.

In reality, it comes down to what developers are willing to do. There really haven't been very many developers trying to use the power of the DS. Hopefully Phantom Hour Glass can get the ball rolling for large adventure games. If not though, I'll be happy with little wonders like Club House Games.

The lack of 3D games is nothing to do with its capabilities, its just that its not that type of console. Developers have more options with DS than other consoles, they don't have to push the machine to its graphical limits to make appealing games, they've got better things to do.

It has a graphics chip similar to the GBA's for the bottom screen, and one more similar to the PS1's than to the N64's for the top screen. And they have seperate graphics RAM.

If it wasn't Mario 64, but had the same controls, everyone would say it had absolutely shit controls that simply didn't work.

Both screens can do the same 3D graphics, there is no 'better' screen for 2D or 3D, the ony difference is that one is a touch-screen, although its difficult to have them both display 3D at the same time.

( Edited on 12.11.2006 17:52 by Grumbler )

Grumbler said:
If it wasnt Mario 64, but had the same controls, everyone would say it had absolutely shit controls that simply didnt work.

Even if it wasn't SM64 I'd say I actually liked the D-pad control and had no problems with it

Grumbler said:
If it wasnt Mario 64, but had the same controls, everyone would say it had absolutely shit controls that simply didnt work.

I have absolutely no problem with D-Pad control. No problem at all. So you can't go diagonalrightrightdown? So you can't go downrightrightrightleftuprightleft. Oh well, 8 directions is good enough for me, at least it's better than crap analogue.

As for voicing an Starfox, it's a crying shame, I've never played an SF game that wasn't completely voiced

( Edited on 12.11.2006 18:00 by SuperLink )

I actually loved SM64 DS and played it to death..

knighty said:
I actually loved SM64 DS and played it to death..

EDIT I mean the graphics on Mario/Yoshi's head of the title screen? That's better visuals than nearly anything I saw on N64...

( Edited on 12.11.2006 18:03 by SuperLink )

SuperLink said:

knighty said:I actually loved SM64 DS and played it to death..

Same, it was a great use of 3D in DS, with tons of voice clips & everything, which is why Im disappinted with so many other 3D DS games, methinks SM64 set a standard that was just too high.

Leave it to Nintendo to screw it up, eh

Just kidding

Yeah same but analoge is still a superior controle method for that game. It just wasn't the best choice to show off the console but it did set a standerds for the graphical capabilities.
I think nintendo must have been worried about all the shit loads of GBA+ ports appearing and decided to set a benchmark at the start of its life.

I thought Metroid Hunters was a top game.

I think they'll be a few more fully 3D titles in the future... FFIII and Phantom Hourglass are just over the horizon of course.

( Edited on 12.11.2006 18:11 by ollie999 )

Blade2t3 said:
Yeah same but analoge is still a superior controle method for that game. It just wasnt the best choice to show off the console but it did set a standerds for the graphical capabilities. I think nintendo must have been worried about all the shit loads of GBA+ ports appearing and decided to set a benchmark at the start of its life.

I wanna see more full 3D games on my DS, with the standards that Mario 64 set 2 friggin' years ago.

Another problem is the touch screen. Publishers want games that use it, but it's pretty redundant for most types of games, especialy 3D ones.

One game I'd love to see on the DS is Panzer Dragoon. It could handle it fine, and at a better frame rate than the Saturn. It was digital originaly, so controls would be fine, and you could even copy the coarse plotting thing from Starfox Command (but do it loads better).

It could be ace. But then.... no one would buy it because it doesn't use primary colours...

( Edited on 12.11.2006 18:13 by Grumbler )

I still think developers need to perfect touch screen analogue, it should be able to be done, maybe Nintendo should come along with a good 3D game that sets better standards than Mario 64 because of good touch screen analogue.....

Metroid Prime Hunters has good touch screen analogue/dual mode, but the game itself was very limited....

SF Command isn't THAT colourful.... & neither is FFIII...

o one would buy it because it doesn't use primary colours.