Nintendo News | Aonuma Talks Zelda: Twilight Princess and Phantom Hourglass

By Jorge Ba-oh 09.03.2007 12

Eiji Aonuma recently spoke at GDC on various Zelda tidbits, from the problems faced with Wind Waker, to redeveloping Twilight Princess for Wii and the upcoming Phantom Hourglass for DS.

  • Aonuma started by discussing Wind Waker - noting that although it didn't sell too well in Japan, it did very well in the West. He was convinced it was mainly due to the unique graphical style employed within the game.
  • Wind Waker did sell over a million copies, but fizzled quickly.
  • Twilight Princess originally went under the project title "Wind Waker 2" but shifted as the game progressed.
  • The team shifted to a more realistic style due to giving the Western market what they desired; with the North American market for Zelda being much stronger. Gameplay shifted to being more realistic in the move from Wind Waker.
  • Miyamoto felt connectivity should be an important aspect of gameplay, naming Four Sword Adventures as an example. Unfortunately it also sold fairly badly due to the hardware requirements needed to play it.
  • The Four Swords team took on the DS project, using the cell shaded style from Wind Waker to produce a 3D adventure on the DS. The game originally used traditional D-pad controls but Aonuma changed this to a more innovative touch screen sceheme to make the most out of the hardware.
  • With Twilight Princess, Aonuma wanted to take the series foward but found it hard to work with the Cube edition to differ the gameplay. The idea of shifting into a wolf came about but Miyamoto disagreed, finding it amateurish to have even considered it. However, Aonuma believed there would be a way to make it work.
  • When the Wii hardware was realised, the team wanted to use the Wiimote with the game but trying not to alienate GameCube owners at the same time.
  • With the GC version done and dusted, the team explored the possibilities of the Wii version - camera control, joystick and pointer control and weapon play. E3 showed that there were numerous control issues, so the team decided to mirror the game's world to allow for right handed motion control.
  • Aonuma believes that Twilight Princess seemed to hard to use in Japan, that reflected on its fairly low sales in the region.
  • Following on from the experimental controls and average sales, the team want a strong focus on Phantom Hourglass.
  • The game's Wi-Fi mode has a hide/seek mode, where players collect pieces of the triforce and take these to their base, one player at a time. The others try to catch you and once caught, you lose your turn. Carrying a piece slows down the character, with bigger pieces reflecting on the weight.

    Certainly a very honest and reflective keynote from one of the best designers in the industry.

    Be sure to check out the recently released trailer for Phantom Hourglass.

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    Raff is offline. Raff 09.03.2007#1

    With the GC version done and dusted, the team explored the possibilities of the Wii version

    I was right.

    It's going to be shit and you jolly well know it.
     
    Darkflame is offline. Darkflame 09.03.2007#2

    It does not take 6 months to add motion controll, you can be sure by "done and dusted" he meant the game was finnished in terms of design,and his involvement. Not finnished totaly in the state it was released. You can *always* improve a game, even if it is technicaly finnished.

    Bug testing alone probably takes 3 months.

    Game design is full of simulantanious development. You can be sure the rest of the team didnt twiddle their thumbs while the people working on the controlls did their work (which is probably, like 2 people out of 70).


    Also, its quite obvious to anyone that has completed the wonderfull Wii version that it was made with the system in mind.

    eg, The tilting puzzle game in the
    fishing shack.

    ---

    One thing I have to dissagree with him, however;

    Twlight Princess controlls too hard?!? O_o


    ( Edited on 09.03.2007 13:17 by Darkflame )

    http://www.fanficmaker.com <-- Tells some truly terrible tales.
    Last update; Mice,Plumbers,Animatronics and Airbenders. We also have the socials; Facebook & G+. 
     
    Modplan Man is offline. Modplan Man 09.03.2007#3

    "Aonuma indicated that Twilight Princess, for as good as it was, is just the tip of the iceberg for what can be done to the franchise on Wii.

    Said Aonuma: "Twilight Princess was created for the GameCube first and the Wii version came later. When we approached Twilight Princess and added the Wii compatible features, we tried to take advantage of the initial key features of the Wii, like the pointer and the motion sensor -- because it was a launch title. But moving forward, as we get more used to using the Wii controllers and we get more used to developing for the Wii, you can probably expect even more deeper controls."

    Some critics have complained that Twilight Princess played and looked too similar to Ocarina of Time. We asked Aonuma if that was a design choice.

    "No, it wasn't my intent at all to make something that looked like or played like Ocarina of Time. I wanted to create something that exceeded Ocarina of Time so that could be why it might seem similar. And some of the staff that worked on Ocarina of Time also worked on Twilight Princess, so that might have impacted it as well. But my goal was to create something new," said Aonuma.

    Quizzed on whether or not there is room for visual improvement to the Zelda series on Wii, Aonuma responded: "With the Wii version of Twilight Princess, I was creating the Wii version of a GameCube game and wanted to make them similar, so I didn't use the Wii graphics capability to its full capacity. We could actually do a lot more with that and I'm looking forward to doing that."

    We asked Aonuma why Twilight Princess didn't feature an orchestral soundtrack.

    "i think you're probably talking about the comment I made at E3 about using fully orchestrated background music for Zelda. [Omitting that] was actually a conscious decision we had to make because of development timing," said Aonuma. "It's something that Kondo-san [the game's composer] is very frustrated about -- he really wishes we could have implemented that. So I'm hoping you'll look forward to that in future Zelda games."

    Finally, we brought up a common gripe: the lack of any major voice acting in Twilight Princess. Unlike orchestral music, which Nintendo seems intent on doing for future games, the company is not yet convinced that characters should talk.

    "In regard to voice acting, I made a conscious decision not to give Link a voice because Link is actually the player and to give him a voice would alter the experience for the player so I don't think that that will happen anytime soon. Unless, of course, it benefits the gameplay. It's all about gameplay, so it if benefits the gameplay then we would definitely consider including voice acting," Aonuma said. "There are many games out there that use voice recording and for me, if I were to choose to include voice acting in a Zelda game, it would have to change the game dramatically and make other people realize that it's a completely new way of using voices."


    From IGN.

     
    Metroid is offline. Metroid 09.03.2007#4

    Nice read that was!I cant wait and see what the next Zelda Wii will be like! Smilie


     
    Guest 09.03.2007#5

    Modplan Man said:
    There are many games out there that use voice recording and for me, if I were to choose to include voice acting in a Zelda game, it would have to change the game dramatically and make other people realize that its a completely new way of using voices.

    Like using great voice acting, mirite?

     
    ohm is offline. ohm 09.03.2007#6

    Not really, how could you innovate on voice acting? It looks like to me as if Nintendo are just making excuses to cut costs.

     
    Raff is offline. Raff 09.03.2007#7

    Not really, how could you innovate on voice acting?

    Like using great voice acting

    ( Edited on 09.03.2007 16:37 by Grumblezorz )

    It's going to be shit and you jolly well know it.
     
    Zapp is offline. Zapp 09.03.2007#8

    Smilie cant wait to see the next Zelda game, TP was awsome but i felt it was abit too short!

    I see all these people insulting the Nintendo corporation because of the lack of mature content. Yet there is something about Nintendo (at least their games) that strikes a certain unadulterated feeling of joy!!!  Pokemon Y - 1048-9263-5562
    Show Spoiler
     
    Laurelin is offline. Laurelin 10.03.2007#9

    See? I told you that that was in no way the best graphics Wii could do.

    And Voice-acting: It is something of atmosphere. You might say, that 'I feel much more of the game when everyone speaks with me voice-like and I respond. But you take on a voice from some one else. Sure, you could say, that you take the *form* of someone else, that means the form of the farming-boy everyone knows as 'link' from this time forward in TP. So it is on one hand a poor excuse (but not for cutting cost, believe me), but for cutting into the world like a sword when you start to hear English or German or Spanish words being spoken! That is something completely different then reading it. I would feel that way so I agree with Aoyuma-san. Difficult to explain that is, force strong in him it is...

    I find your lack of faith disturbing!
     
    James2t3 is offline. James2t3 10.03.2007#10

    Link never has to speak! but the charcters could have voices easily! Cheapskates!

    XBL Gamertag: James2t3
     
    ohm is offline. ohm 11.03.2007#11

    Exactly ^^^^6

     
    Mandown is offline. Mandown 11.03.2007#12

    TP really was not fully realised as a composition in the same way OOT was, all the development issues played a major role in this, and in truth Eiji Aonuma struggled with the project up until the Miyamoto took a more prominant role, but he should of also had a bigger role in the early development of the GC game, which was not the case.

    There were major issues that were not tackled until far too late in development and the game was sacrificed in parts- Aonuma fault as director and producer, Nintendo as they are would never admit as much but i have read tons of material that suggest this all, Aonuma san has practically admitted that he was lost at times during the development, i do not rate him as highly as i do Miyamoto, he still has masses to learn as far as coordinating a Zelda team, that should never be the case with a Zelda games producer, especially when the Zelda team had been increased and Nintendo's resources were stretched already, masses of work went to waste, but we will see some of that in future games in some form.

    The game had to come about at a unfortunate time, the specs of the GC hamperd the Wii framework and possibilities, Aonuma san has said that they felt a need to create identical versions!?, the Wii version payed the price of this, while i see that as understandable given the budget, it was never going to go down well with the fans when you have to down spec a title such as this to accomadate this, remember the scope and intricacy of the game was also hamperd by this, not just graphics which i myself am never really concerned about.

    Hey the game could have been made so much better if resources were not wasted throughout development and were directed in the most important areas first (Eiji faults), but realise this what Ninendo have achived despite is quite simply staggering, i can think of few developers that could make such a game given all the factors they had to juggle with, the title remains a torch for the prowess of Nintendo as a developer of games.

    The new Zelda team young designers have had a exellent babtism of fire, some of them like the designer who created the Link character model will go onto produce fine work for Zelda projects in the future, but hopefully both Eija and Shigs will have better control of them all, and give them clear objectives from the start, it's all happening NOW.


    Koji Kondo composer of Zelda series music:

    "Id love to use a full 50 piece orchestra to capture the big action scenes and an intimate string quartet for more lyrical moments in gameplay"

    - A great hint for the future music in the series.

    Aonuma on the NEXT ZELDA:

    While we don't have any regrets whatsoever about how this Zelda has turned out, the next time we are deciding what kind of game to make, I think the differences between these two philosophies will become a constructive topic for debate.

    (the two philosophies he talks of are one, that of the ease of development for DS games requiring small development teams and budgets, and the other is projects to the scale of Zelda, that require huge teams and large budgets and time frames.)

    - Eiji seems worn out by the project, i hope his comments dont mean a radicical change in the resources for future Zelda project- Iwata has implied this also- a little worrying, but just a little.

    Interview:

    ""I'm 43 and I'll be 44 very soon so as game creators go I'm kind of up there," he said, laughing. "I'm hoping to nurture those below me and train them to become Zelda creators as well."
    Aonuma indicated that Twilight Princess, for as good as it was,
    is just the tip of the iceberg for what can be done to the franchise on
    Wii.

    Said Aonuma: "Twilight Princess was created for the GameCube first and the Wii version came later. When we approached Twilight Princess and added the Wii compatible features, we tried to take advantage of the initial key features of the Wii, like the pointer and the motion sensor -- because it was a launch title. But moving forward, as we get more used to using the Wii controllers and we get more used to developing for the Wii, you can probably expect even more deeper controls."

    Some critics have complained that Twilight Princess played and looked too similar to Ocarina of Time. We asked Aonuma if that was a design choice.

    "No, it wasn't my intent at all to make something that looked like or played like Ocarina of Time. I wanted to create something that exceeded Ocarina of Time so that could be why it might seem similar. And some of the staff that worked on Ocarina of Time also worked on Twilight Princess, so that might have impacted it as well. But my goal was to create something new," said Aonuma."

    Aonuma also believes that there is much room for improvement over the graphics seen in Twilight Princess for future Wii games as they did not focus on improving the graphics at all over the GameCube version.

    Regarding graphics, there were some worries over the Wind Waker's ****

    "The company found that Wind Waker's cartoon-like graphics were alienating the lucrative teen audience in North America, who would look games of that ****and think they were for kids, he continued. With the Japanese market in the midst of the dreaded "gamer drift," and the North American market much stronger, Nintendo decided to give the US what it wanted--a realistic Zelda. He said, "We had to make a game that met expectations of fans in North America. If it didn't, it could mean the end of the franchise."
    The decision was also made for Link to have the ability to turn into a
    wolf. "This kind of disruptive breakthrough was just what we needed for the staff to change their way of thinking."

    But still, the game needed something more, something to make it truly innovative. It was around this stage that Aonuma was talking to Nintendo senior managing director Shigeru Miyamoto, who told him something along the lines of, "It's as though the Revolution (later renamed the Wii) was designed just for Zelda! Why don't you try making a Zelda for the Revolution?" In the end, believes Aonuma, the kind of direct control offered by the Wii Remote was exactly what was needed to breathe life into the game."

    Interestingly, Twilight Princess was almost a first-person game sounding similarly to what Red Steel ended up doing:

    "Developers experimented with switching to a first-person session for Twilight Princess' combat sequences with Link's sword movements being controlled by moving the Wii remote. However, it soon became apparent that there was a fundamental problem with this idea... "Link is left-handed, so when a right-handed player swings the sword, it felt awkward...So we abandoned the idea." In the end, the problem was party resolved by flipping the world laterally in order to make Link right-handed.
    Aonuma said he realised that the game was a success when, "I saw some of our female employees swinging a sword to defeat a huge monster. Then I was convinced Zelda had been reborn.""

    Aonuma also spoke about orchestrated music and voice acting:

    ""i think you're probably talking about the comment I made at E3 about using fully orchestrated background music for Zelda. [Omitting that] was actually a conscious decision we had to make because of development timing," said Aonuma. "It's something that Kondo-san [the game's composer] is very frustrated about -- he really wishes we could have implemented that. So I'm hoping you'll look forward to that in future Zelda games."
    Finally, we brought up a common gripe: the lack of any major voice acting in Twilight Princess. Unlike orchestral music, which Nintendo seems intent on doing for future games, the company is not yet convinced that characters should talk.

    "In regard to voice acting, I made a conscious decision not to
    give Link a voice because Link is actually the player and to give him a voice would alter the experience for the player so I don't think that that will happen anytime soon. Unless, of course, it benefits the gameplay. It's all about gameplay, so it if benefits the gameplay then we would definitely consider including voice acting," Aonuma said. "There are many games out there that use voice recording and for me, if I were to choose to include voice acting in a Zelda game, it would have to change the game dramatically and make other people realize that it's a completely new way of using voices.""

    The last part here deals with Phantom Hourglass:

    "He also filled in some gaps on the upcoming Nintendo DS version of the series--The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass. There will be a Wi-Fi enabled battle mode nicknamed Wi-Fi Hide and Seek. The game is a Pac-Man ****chase, with two players taking on red and blue versions of Link.


    Players must pick up "force gems" in order to see the positions of the phantoms on the board. However, carrying these also has a penalty--they
    will slow the player down, making it easier for the player to be caught. The other controls the phantoms, using the stylus to move them around to chase Link, and hopefully bring him down. Aonuma commented, "The more you play, the more you get to experience the other player's habits, so it's very addictive.""

    If there is video available of the above speech he made at GDC could someone point me to it, thanks in advance. LS

     

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