News: Nintendo: Twilight Princess is Page 1

Erotic_Spider 09.12.2009#1

Very nice.

-Have you any idea what it's like to be a Fembot living in a Manbot's Manputer's world?
-What?

Stulaw 09.12.2009#2

Sorry about that, pressed enter and my laptop thought I'd finished writing.

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erv 10.12.2009#3

Smilie

satsubatsu347 10.12.2009#4

sounds like it is LoZ:OOT and LoZ:MM but in reverse...

Darkflame 10.12.2009#5

Fine by me.
My optimistic side was always thinking they would use TP as an engine, but build on the controlls and make the world less predictable in structure.

But I always had a nagging (horrific) fear that the structure/flow change would mean a liner game devided into levels rather then exploration.

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jb 10.12.2009#6

I think the main problem with Zelda games recently in story. Story, story story! The rehash the whole Ganon going for Zelda/triforce so many times it's grown pretty stale and utterly predictable.

Many people said they loved OOT so Nintendo made TP a "bigger" and "better" Ocarina, with similar locations, dungeon themes and an overall familiar storyline. The beginning and opening sequences were good, had a lot of potential, but as you got past the half way point it felt very rehashed in gameplay structure and story.

At the very minimum there needs to be a change in antagonist, no Zelda getting jacked or having to save some sort of princess, and no "get three emblems/gems/medals before some darkworld/evil thing happens".

A mission mode would be awesome - a series of say 10 or so challenges in the dungeons, available once you've completed the game, with things like "Defeat X amount of enemies", find certain things, solve harder/re-arranged puzzles, beat the boss scenarios and more - they put so much effort into the dungeon designs that they could really have a tag on expansion at the end.

All in all - hoping for a really solid story this time round, minimal Miyamoto interference and new locales/characters to explore.

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Canyarion 10.12.2009#7

I can't wait to see what they do with it. TP was a very solid starting point, now they have had the time to be creative.

Andrezao 10.12.2009#8

@JB, not only because people loved OoT BUT so many complained about WW, they wanted "realistic" Zelda. I am guessing Ganon won't be in this game, perhaps this game would be like MM, a continuation of TP? I really hope they continue to do Zelda on Home consoles that follow MM side from OoT instead of the WW storyline.

Hopefully a bigger threat that Ganon, more countries/kingdoms than Hyrule would be nice Smilie

knighty 10.12.2009#9

Darkflame, are you seriously trying to say Zelda isn't linear? Christ, you really need to play some non-Nintendo games and see how messed up that statement is.

Andrezao 10.12.2009#10

It is, but doesn't make it too obvious. For example, you can go do whatever you want. Side Quests, etc. But you cannot progress through stages in any order, well you can but you will have to get item X and then leave the stage you're at and proceed. I think what he means is LInear to the point of no freedom within world roaming sort of thing.

JoshSL 10.12.2009#11

But that's not exactly a free roam. Almost EVERY game has sidequests, but this doesn't mean that every game is freeroaming. Zelda is by far not the most linear of the bunch, but you can't exactly go do what you want in the story when you want to do it. There are many areas you can't get to without better items, some areas you can't return to, dungeons must be done in order, etc.

Besides, linearity isn't a bad thing. Games that are too free roaming lack some sense of direction at times xD

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Andrezao 10.12.2009#12

I know that hence why I said "it is but doesn't make it that obvious" Say in Ocarina you can go into all the areas again, you could defeat the deser colossus or the Shadow Temple in any order. I defeated the Shadow Temple before the Water Temple (adult Link)

Show Spoiler

It is Linear but you can leave the dungeon at any time to go defeat another, but who would be bothered to do so besides me? Smilie It is free roam but linear, but it isn't too linear like say RE4, where you have to go in one direction at all times.

Freeroam is when you have an open world and do whatever you like, it doesn't necessarily have to include story progression, story progression is only 3 different things- Linear, non Linear or non existent.

I agree I prefer Linear stories because without them I feel a bit pointless maybe? And come on, it's Zelda, Zelda always has a story, I like to follow the story in games. I talk to every character and always read or hear what they say. My brother gets impatient when I do that hahaha.

JoshSL 10.12.2009#13

That's definitely true.
Personally I'm more one for story driven games than "create your own story" games.

However I think Zelda could stand to get a little less linear, more like Okami. The dungeons in Zelda have become a bit too predictable. Get Map, Compass, fight enemies, solve relatively easy puzzle, beat semi-boss, find item, use item to beat final boss.

That will hopefully be shaken up.

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Flynnie 10.12.2009#14

No...! They are talking about fiddling the structure such as the temple layout, or how the game was displayed, thinking of how SNES/GB games were top/down displays and the games since OoT have been in a 3rd person display.

So maybe they are going to do a first person Zelda? Or maybe.......................4D!

Perhaps a different spin on the series, quite like how the new Metroid is getting

crackedthesky 10.12.2009#15

How about an open-ended approach to the series?
Like Fallout 3 meets Zelda. I think that would be fucking cool.

As long as there aren't three-minute loading screens, of course.

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Modplan Man 10.12.2009#16

So no one has played the original?

The first is pretty much non-linear. Most if not all of the dungeons are findable from the beginning. The main issue is difficulty, with which certain items can help immensely. I've only found one instance where I couldn't progress in a dungeon because of an item I needed to get, and it seemed like one of the much harder ones (more + faster enemies, harder to predict movement patterns).

So long as you know where to go and you're good enough, you could presumably do most of typically later ones first.

PMD 10.12.2009#17

I played about an hour of the first Zelda game but got lost and never found the first dungeon. If Nintendo made another Zelda like that, it would put off a lot of gamers.

Games don't need to be non-linear to be enjoyable. In fact, non-linear games get very boring after a point.

Martin_ 10.12.2009#18

Well, this is just corporate spin. We'll see how the actual game turns out. I've been increasingly underwhelmed by Zelda with each successive instalment after Majora's Mask (which I deem to be the best yet). Maybe it's because I came to the Zelda party quite late (my first was Ocarina of Time), I don't know. The crap storyline, the tiny world, the rehashing of all gameplay elements and even settings and tasks.. I don't get the appeal of that. Certainly doesn't appeal to me.

I'm pretty much done with Zelda unless they can really freshen it up and make it more of a mature game. I'm 24 now, I need my games to challenge me in certain ways. A linear stream of doing mostly predictable dungeons, collecting small keys, compasses, dungeon maps and boss keys is now quite a dull experience for me. When I first played Zelda I felt like I was exploring something new, when I play new ones it's mainly just like I'm retreading old ground.

I think business-wise they can't really fail, though. Zelda has always been a big draw, and as long as it isn't any worse than TP, hardly anyone will care. It's one of those games that is guaranteed to sell millions, so they can do as little or as much as they want with it and it'll be a smash hit, regardless. I actually think this is why the N64 ones were so great - Nintendo had only just lost Final Fantasy, and the N64 was struggling against the PlayStation. They needed something, and Zelda became the "rescue project".

They aren't in that situation now, and the next Zelda could just be Twilight Princess 2. It wouldn't matter from a business standpoint.

JoshSL 10.12.2009#19

You say "any worse than TP" like it would be the biggest mistake ever. Just in the last few years they made Phantom Hourglass which many people regard as one of the worst titles in the entire series (Spirit Tracks sounds awesome though)

Also on the non-linearity of Zelda 1, that's proof enough for me that linear Zelda is better than free roaming Zelda.

PS. The storyline isn't crap, it's just a bit average. It shines a bit more in Wind Waker and Majora's Mask though.

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Martin_ 10.12.2009#20

SuperLink said:
You say "any worse than TP" like it would be the biggest mistake ever. Just in the last few years they made Phantom Hourglass which many people regard as one of the worst titles in the entire series (Spirit Tracks sounds awesome though)

I don't really get what you're trying to say.

SuperLink said:
Also on the non-linearity of Zelda 1, that's proof enough for me that linear Zelda is better than free roaming Zelda.

Lulz, I'd wager that a free-roaming Zelda on today's hardware (well, Wii) wouldn't be anything like the NES original. Maybe you had a different point?

SuperLink said:
PS. The storyline isn't crap, it's just a bit average. It shines a bit more in Wind Waker and Majora's Mask though.

You - "No it isn't!"

Me - "Yes it is!"

Smilie

Go on then, how is the story good? You may as well not bother though, I know all of the Zelda storyline up to (and including) Twilight Princess. Anything you say will just be a different perspective on things I already know. We are two people with two different sets of values. I am allowed to think the Zelda storyline stinks. Man up.

JoshSL 10.12.2009#21

Martin_ said:
I don't really get what you're trying to say.

You were making a point that "and as long as it isn't any worse than TP, hardly anyone will care.", but there has been a game worse than TP since TP's release... and no many people seemed to care about it.

Even if the 2D games are in a smaller league than the 3D series, they still had a great level of quality to uphold (set by Capcom of all people)

SuperLink said:
Lulz, I'd wager that a free-roaming Zelda on today's hardware (well, Wii) wouldn't be anything like the NES original. Maybe you had a different point?

No, of course it wouldn't, but I don't really see free roam working in a game like Zelda when you can go to the final areas and get your ass handed to you. Also I DO like getting new items that let you get to loads of new places.

Although free-roaming in modern Zeldas wouldn't actually be a problem for difficulty... considering you hardly lose 3 hearts in TP anyway...

SuperLink said:
Go on then, how is the story good? You may as well not bother though, I know all of the Zelda storyline up to (and including) Twilight Princess. Anything you say will just be a different perspective on things I already know. We are two people with two different sets of values. I am allowed to think the Zelda storyline stinks. Man up.

I thought you said you didn't bother much with the 2D games? That's a large chuck of your Zelda story knowledge missing already. Smilie

That's not the point though, I didn't say it was particularly good (completely ignoring the timeline stuff, since that's "optional" and a deep timeline cannot be used as an excuse for individually poor stories) I said it was average, with a couple of games really standing out; for example Majora's Mask and Wind Waker.

Twilight Princess plotwise was standard fare too, but with a whole lot of interesting backstory that never really leads anywhere.

Edit this post:

[quote][b]Martin_ said:[/b] I don't really get what you're trying to say.[/quote]
You were making a point that "and as long as it isn't any worse than TP, hardly anyone will care.", but there has been a game worse than TP since TP's release... and no many people seemed to care about it.

Even if the 2D games are in a smaller league than the 3D series, they still had a great level of quality to uphold (set by Capcom of all people)

[quote][b]SuperLink said:[/b] Lulz, I'd wager that a free-roaming Zelda on today's hardware (well, Wii) wouldn't be anything like the NES original. Maybe you had a different point?[/quote]
No, of course it wouldn't, but I don't really see free roam working in a game like Zelda when you can go to the final areas and get your ass handed to you. Also I DO like getting new items that let you get to loads of new places.

Although free-roaming in modern Zeldas wouldn't actually be a problem for difficulty... considering you hardly lose 3 hearts in TP anyway...

[quote][b]SuperLink said:[/b] Go on then, how is the story good? You may as well not bother though, I know all of the Zelda storyline up to (and including) Twilight Princess. Anything you say will just be a different perspective on things I already know. We are two people with two different sets of values. I am allowed to think the Zelda storyline stinks. Man up.[/quote]
I thought you said you didn't bother much with the 2D games? That's a large chuck of your Zelda story knowledge missing already. ;)

That's not the point though, I didn't say it was particularly good (completely ignoring the timeline stuff, since that's "optional" and a deep timeline cannot be used as an excuse for individually poor stories) I said it was average, with a couple of games really standing out; for example Majora's Mask and Wind Waker.

Twilight Princess plotwise was standard fare too, but with a whole lot of interesting backstory that never really leads anywhere.

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Martin_ 10.12.2009#22

SuperLink said:
You were making a point that "and as long as it isn't any worse than TP, hardly anyone will care.", but there has been a game worse than TP since TP's release... and no many people seemed to care about it.

Oh right, I get you. My overall point was that business-wise, they can churn out anything and as long as it says 'Zelda' on it, it'll be a smash hit. Guaranteed sales. Make sense?

SuperLink said:No, of course it wouldn't, but I don't really see free roam working in a game like Zelda when you can go to the final areas and get your ass handed to you. Also I DO like getting new items that let you get to loads of new places.

· If you get your ass handed to you, you just respawn at the nearest place (usually the entrance to that particular dungeon), don't you? Not really a problem.

· Why are 'new items' something that only a linear game provides? Smilie

SuperLink said:
I thought you said you didn't bother much with the 2D games? That's a large chuck of your Zelda story knowledge missing already.

Zelda storyline = Zelda is taken by Ganon, Link must reassemble all eight parts of the Triforce of Wisdom in order to save Zelda from the evil clutches of Ganon.

Zelda II storyline = Link must wake sleeping Zelda. He does this by placing crystals in six dungeons, then retrieves the Triforce of Courage from the last dungeon. When all three Triforce pieces are together again, this awakens Princess Zelda.

Zelda: ALTTP storyline = Zelda is locked in Hyrule Castle dungeon as the wizard Agahnim takes control of Hyrule. Link saves Zelda from the castle dungeon, and takes her to a santuary. The man there tells you about how Agahnim intends to free Ganon. Link needs to get the Master Sword to beat him. First though, Link needs collect three magic coins (or whatever they are) in order to wield the magic sword. Zelda is taken again, Link rescues some more bitches, kills Agahnim, and then has to kill Ganon.

I said OoT was the first I played, not that I never played the previous ones. I actually own the original ALTTP cartridge on SNES - do you?

SuperLink said:
I didn't say it was particularly good (completely ignoring the timeline stuff, since that's "optional" and a deep timeline cannot be used as an excuse for individually poor stories) I said it was average, with a couple of games really standing out; for example Majora's Mask and Wind Waker.
Twilight Princess plotwise was standard fare too, but with a whole lot of interesting backstory that never really leads anywhere.

Well, fair enough. I thought for an adventure game, it lacked both in the sense of adventure and storyline. It's just too small (many games have individual levels that are as big as the entire world in Zelda), and the storyline is like something off the back of a cereal box. Really crap, in my opinion.

If they want my moneyz, they will have to actually earn it. If they want yours, they already know that you're going to give it to them. So they needn't do anything. Just make sure it isn't a total let-down, and people like you will definitely buy it in their millions.

Edit this post:

[quote][b]SuperLink said:[/b] You were making a point that "and as long as it isn't any worse than TP, hardly anyone will care.", but there has been a game worse than TP since TP's release... and no many people seemed to care about it.[/quote]

Oh right, I get you. My overall point was that business-wise, they can churn out anything and as long as it says 'Zelda' on it, it'll be a smash hit. Guaranteed sales. Make sense?

[quote][b]SuperLink said:[/b]No, of course it wouldn't, but I don't really see free roam working in a game like Zelda when you can go to the final areas and get your ass handed to you. Also I DO like getting new items that let you get to loads of new places.[/quote]

· If you get your ass handed to you, you just respawn at the nearest place (usually the entrance to that particular dungeon), don't you? Not really a problem.

· Why are 'new items' something that only a linear game provides? :roller:

[quote][b]SuperLink said:[/b] I thought you said you didn't bother much with the 2D games? That's a large chuck of your Zelda story knowledge missing already. ;)[/quote]

Zelda storyline = Zelda is taken by Ganon, Link must reassemble all eight parts of the Triforce of Wisdom in order to save Zelda from the evil clutches of Ganon.

Zelda II storyline = Link must wake sleeping Zelda. He does this by placing crystals in six dungeons, then retrieves the Triforce of Courage from the last dungeon. When all three Triforce pieces are together again, this awakens Princess Zelda.

Zelda: ALTTP storyline = Zelda is locked in Hyrule Castle dungeon as the wizard Agahnim takes control of Hyrule. Link saves Zelda from the castle dungeon, and takes her to a santuary. The man there tells you about how Agahnim intends to free Ganon. Link needs to get the Master Sword to beat him. First though, Link needs collect three magic coins (or whatever they are) in order to wield the magic sword. Zelda is taken again, Link rescues some more bitches, kills Agahnim, and then has to kill Ganon.

I said OoT was the first I played, not that I never played the previous ones. I actually own the original ALTTP cartridge on SNES - do you?

[quote][b]SuperLink said:[/b] I didn't say it was particularly good (completely ignoring the timeline stuff, since that's "optional" and a deep timeline cannot be used as an excuse for individually poor stories) I said it was average, with a couple of games really standing out; for example Majora's Mask and Wind Waker.

Twilight Princess plotwise was standard fare too, but with a whole lot of interesting backstory that never really leads anywhere.[/quote]

Well, fair enough. I thought for an adventure game, it lacked both in the sense of adventure and storyline. It's just too small (many games have individual levels that are as big as the entire world in Zelda), and the storyline is like something off the back of a cereal box. Really crap, in my opinion.

If they want my moneyz, they will have to actually earn it. If they want yours, they already know that you're going to give it to them. So they needn't do anything. Just make sure it isn't a total let-down, and people like you will definitely buy it in their millions.

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JoshSL 10.12.2009#23

Martin_ said:
Oh right, I get you. My overall point was that business-wise, they can churn out anything and as long as it says \'Zelda\' on it, it\'ll be a smash hit. Guaranteed sales. Make sense?

Link\'s Crossbow Training says they don\'t even need to put the word Zelda in the title =_=

· Why are \'new items\' something that only a linear game provides?

No I mean new items unlocking new areas. If you can go almost everywhere from the start that doesn\'t leave much space for new areas you can get to with your sparkly new hookshot!

SuperLink said:
I said OoT was the first I played, not that I never played the previous ones. I actually own the original ALTTP cartridge on SNES - do you?

No I don\'t, I have it on GBA \'cos me SNES broke.
But you listed under half of the 2D Zeldas there. There\'s also:

-Link\'s Awakening: Link is washed up on an island and tries to find a way to get back home. Unfortunately he\'s essentially stuck as the island is cursed to stay the same in a dream for eternity, so he has to \"wake up\" the island in order to escape, but doing so means ending the lives of everyone living there. He needs 8 instruments in order to play a song to wake the Windfish.

-Oracle of Ages/Seasons: The Oracles (living incarnations of Hyrule\'s goddesses) of Hyrule\'s sister regions (Labrynnia and Holodrum) are kidnapped by more than decent original villains who use their powers to control time, or throw the weather and seasons of the world into total chaos. Turns out it was all a big scheme to revive the Evil King. He needs 16 seeds in order to restore both regions.

-Minish Cap: Prequel to the Four Swords trilogy, and shows us the backstory of Vaati, the best non-Ganon villain in the entire series. He basically steals the magical hat of his master (Sorceror\'s Apprentice anyone?) and uses its wish granting power to give himself amazing magical abilities. He uses 4 medallions to power up the Picori Sword into the Four Sword (which is then seen in both the Four Swords games)

-Phantom Hourglass: Sequel to Wind Waker. Nothing really happens.

SuperLink said:
If they want my moneyz, they will have to actually earn it. If they want yours, they already know that you\'re going to give it to them. So they needn\'t do anything. Just make sure it isn\'t a total let-down, and people like you will definitely buy it in their millions.

You say that as if every Zelda released in the last decade hasn\'t been met with critical acclaim.
Zelda isn\'t like Sonic y\'know.

( Edited 10.12.2009 12:04 by SuperLink )

Edit this post:

[quote][b]Martin_ said:[/b] Oh right, I get you. My overall point was that business-wise, they can churn out anything and as long as it says 'Zelda' on it, it'll be a smash hit. Guaranteed sales. Make sense?[/quote]
Link's Crossbow Training says they don't even need to put the word Zelda in the title =_=

[quote]· Why are 'new items' something that only a linear game provides? :roller:[/quote]
No I mean new items unlocking new areas. If you can go almost everywhere from the start that doesn't leave much space for new areas you can get to with your sparkly new hookshot!

[quote][b]SuperLink said:[/b] I said OoT was the first I played, not that I never played the previous ones. I actually own the original ALTTP cartridge on SNES - do you?[/quote]
No I don't, I have it on GBA 'cos me SNES broke.
But you listed under half of the 2D Zeldas there. There's also:

-Link's Awakening: Link is washed up on an island and tries to find a way to get back home. Unfortunately he's essentially stuck as the island is cursed to stay the same in a dream for eternity, so he has to "wake up" the island in order to escape, but doing so means ending the lives of everyone living there. He needs 8 instruments in order to play a song to wake the Windfish.

-Oracle of Ages/Seasons: The Oracles (living incarnations of Hyrule's goddesses) of Hyrule's sister regions (Labrynnia and Holodrum) are kidnapped by more than decent original villains who use their powers to control time, or throw the weather and seasons of the world into total chaos. Turns out it was all a big scheme to revive the Evil King. He needs 16 seeds in order to restore both regions.

-Minish Cap: Prequel to the Four Swords trilogy, and shows us the backstory of Vaati, the best non-Ganon villain in the entire series. He basically steals the magical hat of his master (Sorceror's Apprentice anyone?) and uses its wish granting power to give himself amazing magical abilities. He uses 4 medallions to power up the Picori Sword into the Four Sword (which is then seen in both the Four Swords games)

-Phantom Hourglass: Sequel to Wind Waker. Nothing really happens.

[quote][b]SuperLink said:[/b] If they want my moneyz, they will have to actually earn it. If they want yours, they already know that you're going to give it to them. So they needn't do anything. Just make sure it isn't a total let-down, and people like you will definitely buy it in their millions.[/quote]
You say that as if every Zelda released in the last decade hasn't been met with critical acclaim.
Zelda isn't like Sonic y'know.

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Modplan Man 10.12.2009#24

In NES Zelda, there\'s 3 options when you die: Continue, Save, Restart. Continue when you\'re in a dungeon puts you at the entrance (haven\'t played it in a little while so can\'t quite remember). The original original (Proper NES copy) came with a map of the over world too, to answer PMD\'s concern of lack of accessibility.

Whether you get your ass handed to you is a mixture of skill and what items you have. The original is much more arcadey - more difficult, but can often be just within reach that you want to try again, including later levels. It also has far less puzzle elements - Zelda very much started as an action game. The original is also only beaten in sales by OoT, with which you have to take into account the \"3D bump\" the games got in sales at the time from the leap to 3D, and Twilight Princess (just, it seems).

Methinks it shouldn\'t be underestimated just how much much more popular a return to the original form might be.

E: There\'s also practically no story.

E2: From Wikipedia:

Link must successfully navigate each of the first eight dungeons to obtain one of the eight pieces of the Triforce of Wisdom. Only when he has the completed Triforce can he enter the ninth dungeon. Dungeons also hide useful tools which Link can add to his arsenal, such as a boomerang for retrieving distant items and stunning enemies, and a recorder with magical properties. The first six dungeons have visible entrances, but the entrances to the remaining three dungeons are hidden. Except for the final dungeon, the order of completing dungeons is somewhat arbitrary, but some dungeons can only be reached and/or completed using items gained in a previous one.

( Edited 10.12.2009 12:27 by Modplan Man )

J4K 10.12.2009#25

You were making a point that "and as long as it isn't any worse than TP, hardly anyone will care.", but there has been a game worse than TP since TP's release... and no many people seemed to care about it.

Of course it was worse than Twilight Princess -- how could it have really been better? Its a smaller scale Zelda on inferior hardware.

That said, I think your closer to the minority in thinking Phantom Hourglass wasn't a good Zelda game. Few people would call it a classic, but even fewer would say it wasn't a very enjoyable game.

As for Nintendo, it very well could be PR spin but I think they're serious. I believe they heard the fancry over the lack of originality in TP. I think we'll definitely get something different with this Zelda, we just don't know exactly what that means yet (other than motion plus support).

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